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Author Topic: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking  (Read 8110 times)

KernelSoftware

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DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« on: October 23, 2015, 05:46:49 PM »

In the Network configuration, there is no restriction on setting the router's IP address to a value in a Class A network (eg, 10.1.1.1) and the subnet mask can be set to values such as 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0.  The DHCP server also allows setting a range in a Class A network (eg, 10.1.1.100 - 200).  However, when setting up this router in a Class A network, wireless clients work fine, but wired clients do not.  Wired clients cannot browse to the router and cannot access the Internet.

In contrast, previous generations of D-Link routers (eg, DIR-655) work fine when configured as a Class A network.  Is this a firmware bug in the current generation routers like the DIR-850L?  Or is this a purposeful new direction for the D-Link router product line?

Support for Class A networks has always been a distinguishing feature of D-Link routers when compared to similarly priced routers of other brands.  Also, I could not find any statement in the documentation that only Class C networks are now supported.
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FurryNutz

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2015, 10:55:41 AM »

Link>Welcome!

  • What Hardware version is your router? Look at sticker under the router case.
  • Link>What Firmware version is currently loaded? Found on the routers web page under status.
  • What region are you located?

My DIR-836L can do your configuration and my wired and wireless Mac Book Pro and iPhone 6 connects just fine. Mac Book Pro is wired to the router and is managing the router for this test.

You sure your configurations are correct on the wired PCs?
Be sure you have either released and cleared the IP leases on the PCS or do reboot after the router has been changed to the new IP address scheme.
Why are you using a Class A configuration for a home class router?
Is this for a home or business?

Might check your configurations before crying wolf.  ::)
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Cable: 1Gb/50Mb>NetGear CAX80>DIR-882>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-1202/2202/3902,DIR-2660/80,3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,836L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L,936L,960L and 8000LH.

KernelSoftware

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 07:31:20 PM »

FurryNutz, than you for your reply.  The answers to your questions:

•What Hardware version is your router?  B1
•Link>What Firmware version is currently loaded?  2.03
•What region are you located?  US

I tested the DIR-850L on 4 networks.  3 of the 4 networks had current cable modems.  On those Class A networks, the router was unable to be accessed by wired clients, but the wireless clients worked fine.  On 1 network with an older cable modem and a Class A network, all clients worked ok.  So, there was one instance that worked, but the cable company wants to upgrade that modem.  I have no idea why the modem would affect what happens on the local net.  All the modems were set to bridge mode.  Half the networks used static IP addresses and the other half had dynamic.  None of the IP addresses offered by the ISP were in the 10.x.x.x scope.

Yes, the wired client network settings were thoroughly tested.  For example, if the router was given an IP address of 10.1.1.1 with subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 and DHCP of 10.1.1.20 - 254, wired clients would get a dynamic IP like 10.0.0.200 (yes, 10.0.0.x, not 10.1.1.x) and they could access the router.  If the subnet mask was changed to 255.0.0.0, the wired clients would still get similar IP addresses (10.0.0.x), but they could not connect to the router.  Wireless clients worked fine either way, even if they were the same device (not connected to both ports at the same time).  The same results were obtained with and without the modem connected, except that clients that could access the router could also access the Internet.

Yes, the connections were reset and/or devices restarted to ensure fresh connections were made after any changes.

The DIR-655 had sufficient features to easily manage small business networks using Class A networks.  They are very reliable (zero failures in many years).  They also have all the required virtual server and port redirection features needed by small business.  Now, we want to update support to include the new wireless AC standard, so the DIR-850L looked to be a reasonable choice.  It has all the same features, but now Class A network support is broken (at least on current modems).

Who is your ISP?  What modem do you have?  Did you test clients using DHCP from the router and/or static IP addresses?  I tested both ways with the same results.
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ON4KKP

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 10:42:51 PM »

for testing  put behind the 655 an AC Access Point!
or put the 850 behind 655 in bridged mode
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FurryNutz

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 06:59:30 AM »

CableOne
Motorola SB 6121 pre Arris
DHCP only client wired to the back of my router and doing the configuration.

Let me check a different router. The Rev B version you have maybe a different code base. Does your UI have a all white and blue look and feel or is it a orange and white look like the DIR-655 has?

BTW the DIR-655 does not have Bridge mode. You can test the 850L out with the DIR-655 if you choose to by doing the following:
Turning a router into an AP.
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Cable: 1Gb/50Mb>NetGear CAX80>DIR-882>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-1202/2202/3902,DIR-2660/80,3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,836L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L,936L,960L and 8000LH.

KernelSoftware

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 07:59:30 PM »

ON4KKP, thank you for your reply.  I did also add a DAP-2660, but also want to change out the router which covers a different space.

FurryNutz, thanks again for your reply.  The GUI of the DIR-850L I have has the newer design (white/blue), not the old look (black/orange) as did the DIR-655.  Thanks for checking into the Rev B version.  I'll check back . . .
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FurryNutz

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2015, 02:40:38 PM »

Connecting my DIR-880L v1.05WW and setting our 10.1.1.1 configuration, my Mac Book Pro can access the routers web page and access the internet as I'm posting this thru the 880L: Speed test result


Changing the subnet to 255.0.0.0 results is same accessibility:


Possible that you have a configuration issue or your unit maybe faulty.
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Cable: 1Gb/50Mb>NetGear CAX80>DIR-882>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-1202/2202/3902,DIR-2660/80,3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,836L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L,936L,960L and 8000LH.

KernelSoftware

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2015, 06:44:32 PM »

Thanks FurryNutz.  Too bad you couldn't test a DIR-850L.  It's always nice to able to test the same models for exact comparison.

I doubt it is a configuration issue.  After resetting to factory defaults, I only change the router's IP address to 10.1.1.1, change the subnet mask to 255.0.0.0, and change the DHCP scope to 10.1.1.20 - 254.  After that, wired clients can no longer access the modem or Internet, except when using the one older modem I mentioned earlier.

If there's a DIR-850L owner out there that can test this, it would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.
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FurryNutz

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2015, 12:37:35 PM »

Possible you have a faulty unit. After testing two different routers here, I presume that maybe yours isn't working right.
I recommend that you phone contact your regional D-Link support office and ask for help and information regarding this. We find that phone contact has better immediate results over using email.
Let us know how it goes please.

Thanks FurryNutz.  Too bad you couldn't test a DIR-850L.  It's always nice to able to test the same models for exact comparison.

I doubt it is a configuration issue.  After resetting to factory defaults, I only change the router's IP address to 10.1.1.1, change the subnet mask to 255.0.0.0, and change the DHCP scope to 10.1.1.20 - 254.  After that, wired clients can no longer access the modem or Internet, except when using the one older modem I mentioned earlier.

If there's a DIR-850L owner out there that can test this, it would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.
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Cable: 1Gb/50Mb>NetGear CAX80>DIR-882>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-1202/2202/3902,DIR-2660/80,3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,836L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L,936L,960L and 8000LH.

KernelSoftware

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2015, 01:54:31 PM »

Thanks, FurryNutz.  VIP phone support is where I started.  As soon as I mentioned I was trying to use 10.1.1.1 with 255.255.0.0, I got an immediate "Sorry, not supported, case closed."  So, I thought I'd try here hoping someone has done this successfully.  Then, I would have known I had a bad unit.  Without that confirmation, I'm pretty much just stuck.

As a result, I have been shopping for SMB routers that do support Class A networks, AC Wi-Fi, and port redirection.  Cisco, Linksys, Netgear, ZyXEL, etc all say they don't have an SMB model that has those features.  The only one I've found is Draytek at twice the price, but we need those features.  We were very happy with D-Link, but they've dropped the ball here.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 02:07:41 PM by KernelSoftware »
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FurryNutz

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2015, 02:55:06 PM »

Did you happend to ask them about the DSR series routers? These are there small business class router series and may offer the Class A networking your looking for.
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Cable: 1Gb/50Mb>NetGear CAX80>DIR-882>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-1202/2202/3902,DIR-2660/80,3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,836L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L,936L,960L and 8000LH.

Hard Harry

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2015, 06:36:34 PM »

When I see a problem with routing 10.x.x.x IP I immediately think something on the ISP side is using that space and the firewall on the new router is passing the ARP requests through, while the old router did not. Many ISP use the 10.0.0.0/8 block for their internal CMTS and routers.

Who is your ISP and what modem/gateway device do you have of theirs?
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KernelSoftware

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2015, 06:53:16 PM »

FurryNutz, my D-Link sales rep stated that the DSR models are going away, so I did not investigate them further.

Hard Harry, that was my first thought also.  However, we could not find any such addresses.  Everything we can find uses addresses in the ISP's range.  We did have an ISP long ago that did that, but our current ISP, Charter Communications, does not appear to do that.  Charter is now using Ubee modem/router combo units.  However, we use it in bridge mode.  We did test the DIR-850L on two older Charter modem/routers (SMC).  It worked on one, but not the other.
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FurryNutz

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2015, 07:08:41 PM »

Standard networking for DIR series routers in use with ISP modems, non router modems, typically use the public IP address (##.##.###.###) that passes thru the ISP modem and to the WAN side of the DIR router. 172.# or 192.# IP address is used on the LAN side. Unless you have specific needs on the LAN side, Class C addresses should be used and should work for your needs. If the ISP modem does have a router built in, some modems already have a Class C or should have a class C address on the LAN side, usually 192.168.1.#. Some ISP modems can be bridged and thus shutting off the modems internal router and then it should pass a public IP address (##.##.###.###) to the DIR router. However is some cases ISP modems may not be able to be bridged, thus the DIR router and ISP modem are in a double NAT condition and it's possible to use the IP address that's given to the DIR router from the ISP modem and input this into the modems DMZ. Depending what the ISP modems is using for DHCP addresses, if the are the same as the DIR router, then the DIR routers default pool should be changed from 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.2.1 for example on the LAN side of the DIR router as to avoid conflict between the ISP modem and DIR router. Class A addresses should not be needed on the DIR router or required by a ISP that I have ever heard of let alone Charter. I do believe Charter provides public IP addresses to there home customers. Only could be different maybe if your using a business service?

Have you tried using the 192.168 pool on the DIR? I presume this should work if the ISP modem is passing a public IP address and in bridge mode.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 07:22:34 PM by FurryNutz »
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Cable: 1Gb/50Mb>NetGear CAX80>DIR-882>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-1202/2202/3902,DIR-2660/80,3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,836L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L,936L,960L and 8000LH.

Hard Harry

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Re: DIR-850L wired clients cannot use Class A networking
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 11:25:45 AM »

FurryNutz, my D-Link sales rep stated that the DSR models are going away, so I did not investigate them further.

Hard Harry, that was my first thought also.  However, we could not find any such addresses.  Everything we can find uses addresses in the ISP's range.  We did have an ISP long ago that did that, but our current ISP, Charter Communications, does not appear to do that.  Charter is now using Ubee modem/router combo units.  However, we use it in bridge mode.  We did test the DIR-850L on two older Charter modem/routers (SMC).  It worked on one, but not the other.

I think your misunderstanding me. I don't mean the ISP use those IP for devices or IPs given to customers, I mean the ISP use the IP range for their own network. IE tracert to google.com and look at the first 2 hops after your modem/gateway. They will probably be 10.x.x.x IPs. Usually the HFC interface of the CMTS. I found this to be true for most cable based ISP's. Long story short, either need to add custom firewall rules or use a different IP space.
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