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Author Topic: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...  (Read 46360 times)

XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2012, 10:50:46 AM »

Yeah that screen shot is with my XBOX off and his on.  I am baffled as well, because for what ever reason his Xbox is not using the standard XBL ports however it connects to the correct XBL ports on the other end 3074.
When I get home I will check his XBOX settings in the dashboard and see if there is any option to delete this 17510 port.  I know the network settings are set to auto right now but you never know.

Thanks for your help and telly your friend thanks for the screen shots! ;)
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2012, 11:32:49 AM »

Heres his GF rules.


I might presume that yours sons xbox could be the issue.
The xbox is set up for automatic?
One thing you could try, remove the reservation on his xbox on the 4500, remove his IP address from the GF rule. Try testing the xbox with Automatic then set a static IP address ON the xbox and see if the exhibits the same thing.
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Hard Harry

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2012, 12:18:03 PM »

Ok, I only skimmed through the first page, but I think I understand the bulk of the confusion. To put super simply, when using multiple Xbox (or any series of devices running the same traffic on the same ports) its better to use UPnP for to dictate port control.

 The whole point of point forwarding is to tell the router which specific LAN IP (192, etc) to direct traffic on a certian incoming port. If your telling the router to direct it to two places, it can't obide. So as soon as the first request (which ever Xbox makes the request first) is put into the routing table (aka Internet Sessions) any second request is filtered through UPnP. UPnP uses random ports not assigned by IANA and thats why your seeing it use 17510. Also, take note, traffic from Xbox to XBL and XBL to Xbox is not a loop. It you put traffic out on A, it doesn't come back on 1. Take a request for a website for instance. The request for the site will go out on port 80, and that's why if your running a webserver on your network you forward thet port 80 request to the machine running the server. When the server actually sends data out, it can be on any number of ports. So your incoming isn't going to be 80, but 36280 or 40742 using examples from below.

Theres more to your issue though, so don't take what I said as the end all solution, just thought I would shed some light on it. I will try to post more when I get back from work.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2012, 12:21:37 PM »

Thanks Harry, good to see you again on here.  ;)
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2012, 12:35:40 PM »

Thanks for your input Harry, where have you been?  Anyway good to see you post again.

Okay back on topic,  what you are saying makes sense and I was wondering the same thing. I have a couple of things I can try to see what happens.

I can restore the factory default network settings on the XBOX dashboard and then connect to XBL to see if the port changes to 3074.

Or, disable port triggering under "special application" in the router settings and see if both XBox's start using port 3074 or picks another random port.

Or leave everything alone and turn off UPnP but just as a test to see if that does anything.

I am thinking if everything is working how it is supposed to and UPnP is using a different local ports to speed XBL traffic up, I could just figure out which ports it is using and set up rules and port triggering for it (if they're static or I can just set a range).

This may be the best method since I would assume traffic on two different local ports is going to be faster than one port sharing all the traffic.
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2012, 07:56:41 AM »

Update:
I was able to run a few more tests last night, I found out that it happens on both Xbox's.  Which ever Xbox I turned on first had port 3074 and the Xbox I turned on second would have a random port associated with it.  So both Xbox's are having this problem.

I also confirmed the answer to this question earlier,
 "Why doesn't all the out bound traffic have the priority setting I have entered in my GF rules? because they were UDP and not TCP???"
Answer:  I did not have "both" selected for the protocol in the GF rule.

Okay so this what I did last night and the results:
In network settings in the dash board I reset to factory defaults on the XBox = no change.
Disabled port triggering under "special applications" = no change.
Disabled UpnP= No change.

So for what ever reason my router will not let both Xbox's use the same ports. I also think I found an easier way to check what port each Xbox is using for gaming through the dashboard.  However I would like to see this happen a few more times before I commit to it.
Maybe someone else can give it a try and confirm or deny it.
Turn on Xbox, sign into XBL and when on the dash board select "settings"=>"system"=>"Console"=>"system info" and in the top right corner it should tell you your IP and what port number it is using for XBL.

Anyway, so right now I have a GF rule set up to cover all ports for each Xbox until I/we get this figured out. 

This weekend I am going to see if it happens with GF disabled and if so I will save my config file and do a factory reset on my router to see what happens.
Any other ideas????

Also, could my modem be causing this problem?
Its a Cisco DPQ3212, DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem.
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Hard Harry

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2012, 01:59:34 AM »

Quote
" I turned on second would have a random port associated with it. "
Exactly. You can only use a single inbound port for any associated MAC address. Thats just how NAT works. UPnP works around that by using UDP traffic to cordinate a set of random private ports. So what ever Xbox goes online first gets associated first with the 3074 port. Even if you turn off that Xbox, as long as the session time is active (see internet sessions under status) it won't allow the port open for any other device. Thats why with Multiple Xbox's, UPnP is the way to go. You can use gamefuel still, since that just sets traffic priority to the outbound, and not port forwarding on the inbound (or server outbound if you may).


Quote
Turn on Xbox, sign into XBL and when on the dash board select "settings"=>"system"=>"Console"=>"system info" and in the top right corner it should tell you your IP and what port number it is using for XBL.
I can confirm this. The IP is the public IP given to your router by your ISP. And the port is the port XBL logged that IP as signing into it's network under. BTW, don't share that IP on these boards, but nice trick. Never noticed that myself. ::thumbs up::

 
Quote
Also, could my modem be causing this problem?
Its a Cisco DPQ3212, DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem.
No, not your modem. Thats a standalone data/phone eMTA. Just remeber with a modem like that unplugging the power doesn't reset it. It likly had a battery.


Quote
This weekend I am going to see if it happens with GF disabled and if so I will save my config file and do a factory reset on my router to see what happens.

Best advice I can give is save your config and factory reset. Then just set DHCP reservation for your two Xboxs and make sure UPnP is on. Then turn off both 360, reboot router, wait until its online then turn 1box on and sign in. Then turn the next xbox on and sign in. One you have them both working and connecting properly then you can set QoS rules. But unless you have other people using traffic while your gaming, they aren't going to help you much. Traffic management only helps....if there is..traffic to manage. ;-)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 02:01:47 AM by Hard Harry »
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2012, 11:00:33 AM »

Well, if I did not have the screen shots of the random ports, I would think I am going crazy.  When I ran some tests yesterday with both Xbox's are on, both were using the same local port 3074 but one of the Xbox's had a random port on the NAT side (NAT=The port number of the LAN-side application as viewed by the WAN-side application) and had the correct priority.

So yesterday my game fuel rules were working.  So I am not sure what happened the other day????
Anyway to avoid the game fuels rules not working with both Xbox's on, I just created a new rule for both Xbox's that covers every port and disabled the port specifics rules.

I will see how it goes!

Thanks for everyone's help!
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2012, 07:56:25 AM »

Harry, do you think port 53 is needed in the rules or any rules or can the xbox use it along with 80 and 88 with out too much trouble? I'm wondering if we could narrow down the port rules even more by just using 3074? I presume that 53 is just for common Internet items used by the dashboard and applications with in? Games wouldn't really need to have any need for 53 to be loaded in the rules anywhere?
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2012, 10:25:38 AM »

I took screen shots and different times while loading and playing. 
Logging into the main menu in MW3 there was a lot of port 80 showing up.  In the lobby was mostly port 3074.  Loading MP in MW3 was ports 80, 443 and 3074.  There also some random ports showing up during these times as well.
I only saw port 53 show when first initially logging into XBL from the dash board.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2012, 10:32:56 AM »

Hmm...makes me think that port 53 isn't needed in the rules.
Can you get a snap shot of ports while you or your son is gaming?
I wonder if we should add port 80 and 443.  ???
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2012, 10:52:34 AM »

Furry,
I have them edited and ready to go, do you want me to e-mail them to you or just post the screen shots?
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2012, 10:59:59 AM »

Post please  :o
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2012, 11:09:57 AM »

Signing into XBL from the dash board


At MW3 main menu after selecting to start MW3 disc (game)
First screen shot:


Second screen shot at main menu.


Pressing A at the MP screen to log into XBL COD servers


While finding a match to play.


Match is found and map is loading for the game to start.  Wrong local ports but you can see the XBL ports on the other side.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 01:12:53 PM by XS »
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2012, 11:22:43 AM »

Seem like 80 is used while the game is being loaded and initial getting to the room, some 443, then mostly 3074 is used while actually gaming.

Any chance you see this same test using a non COD game like GoW or Halo game? Don't have to post pics.
What this with these particular ports in the rule or just 3074?
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