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Author Topic: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...  (Read 46384 times)

XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2012, 11:27:10 AM »

.197 is my Xbox and .198 is my Sons.
Here is a screen shot of my son during game play when his ports were messed but you can seee the XBL ports.

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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2012, 11:29:40 AM »

Seem like 80 is used while the game is being loaded and initial getting to the room, some 443, then mostly 3074 is used while actually gaming.

Any chance you see this same test using a non COD game like GoW or Halo game? Don't have to post pics.
What this with these particular ports in the rule or just 3074?

I never play those game online so I am not sure, i can do a test run later when I have time to see.  I am pretty sure port 3074 is the main gaming port. However as you can see on that last screen shot there are some random high ports....
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2012, 11:32:07 AM »

Yes. Seems like 3047 is the main one.

How do you have the router set right now for GF? You have PT still on or OFF?
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2012, 11:40:50 AM »

The screen shots with the Xbox .197 and a priority 64 is with the GF rules set up to cover every port, 1-65535. remote IP 0.0.0.0 - 255.255.255.255.  This is how I have it set up now just in case the router wants to use some random port on one of the xbox's while me and my son are playing together.  So that way we will have the same priority no matter what.

PT is enabled.

Oh here is a screen shot with GF set up per your sticky: Note I forget if this screen shot was while loading the map to start the playing or waiting in the lobby.


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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2012, 11:47:41 AM »

Would be great to have a screen shot of actual game play if possible using my sticky.

I see that when you didn't use my sticky, Local and NAT used some random port, while mine kept the specified port.



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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2012, 11:57:32 AM »

No, my son was playing Madden on his Xbox so he had port 3074 already linked to his Xbox on the NAT side other wise if only my Xbox was on it would have been using port 3074 on local and NAT side.
Harry and I have confirmed this to be true.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2012, 11:58:09 AM »

I'd like Harry to review this.
I'm curious if we need to keep using port 53 or any of the others in a rule or just only 3074 when using GameFuel?

I've only used 53 and 3074. I've never needed to PF or PT any of the other ports that MS recommends doing to.
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Hard Harry

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2012, 12:05:02 PM »

Harry, do you think port 53 is needed in the rules or any rules or can the xbox use it along with 80 and 88 with out too much trouble? I'm wondering if we could narrow down the port rules even more by just using 3074? I presume that 53 is just for common Internet items used by the dashboard and applications with in? Games wouldn't really need to have any need for 53 to be loaded in the rules anywhere?

Here are the ports as I understand them:

Port 53: DNS
Port 80: Http
Port 88: XBL login verification system
Port 3074: Match making system

So to answer your question, port 53 is needed, but I don't think it would effect gameplay. If the router wasn't passing DNS info I doubt it would get on at all. I think once your in the game though, it uses ARP requests for IP routing so doesn't need domain resolution. So maybe think of Port 53 like the starter on a car? You need it to start, but once your going it does very little. Port 80,81,and 443 are tricky though. I don't know why the 360 would need inbound 80 open. Outbound, sure, every computer on your network uses that, I doubt your firewall is going to block it, but why does your Xbox need it? Ok, maybe with the new dashboard advertisement and integrated Bing ::gag::..but still. I think prioritizing 80 for your 360 when it barley uses it while the rest of your network always uses it can create performance issues. Yet Xbox still insists to forward those ports on their support forum. ::shrug:: Go figure.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2012, 12:09:32 PM »

What I was kind of thinking Harry. Thank you sir.

XS, can you run this same test and only use 3074 in the GF and turn off PT. Use the specific Remote IPs as well.
I'd like to see if only using 3074 as the port in GF and let the router automatically use the others, as needed, would effect anything. I don't think it should. 
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XS

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2012, 12:59:59 PM »

Thanks Harry, actually the only ports you are supposed to forward for XBL are 3074 TCP/UDP and port 88 UDP. The other ports should be opened but not forwarded.

Furry,
To be honest the only reason why decided to even mess around with the GF rules and stuff was because I feel like I lag more than I should, not too bad just a little lag.  Really the main reason is because at least half the time when me and my son are on, one of us leaves the game because of real bad lag.  I am hoping that the router actually was/is giving one of the Xbox a random port # on the local side instead of both port 3074 when we are both playing MW3, because that would explain why one of us is lagging.  One us would have priority 40 while the other was priority 128.

Anyway, if port 3074 is really the only important port I could just keep the GF rules on all the local ports (1-65535) but only prioritize port 3074 on the remote ports.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2012, 01:09:34 PM »

Makes sense. Let us know what happens when you set up GF in that way. It will be a good test. I'm still concerned that one of your 2 xboxes is lagging. I do notice lag here and there and thats mostly due to the WAN side of the router and someone else and there connections. Like last night.

I'm wondering if this could be a router issue or modem issue as well. Do you have a different router by chance? Doesn't have to be a DGL or a DLink. Would be a good test to try out a different router for this lag issue. When I had my roommate, he was connected wireless to my 657 while I was wired. I asked him if he notice anything while gaming, said everything was great accept for the occasional in game lag that we both noticed. The router is still set up as the sticky says.

Let me know if you don't have another router. Maybe we can work that out as I have some spares.
I guess I should reconnect my 4500 again however my roommate as recently moved out.  ;D So i get to hog the gaming all to myself again.  ;D
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 01:59:38 PM by FurryNutz »
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Hard Harry

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2012, 11:19:52 PM »

Thanks Harry, actually the only ports you are supposed to forward for XBL are 3074 TCP/UDP and port 88 UDP. The other ports should be opened but not forwarded.

Well in my research when I was writing a sticky that's still in "beta" I found some conflicting info. Mainly, this is caused by a "better safe then sorry" approach to networking alot of support staff take. Or maybe it would better to call it the "Forward ALL the ports" ::insert meme here:: approach. :

Here is a example of the closest walk through I could find on Xbox's support page about Ports and how they relate to NAT. You will notice they say "Open the following ports", not foward, but open. However here points to Portforward.com as it's suggested method and gives this specailized link: http://portforward.com/english/applications/port_forwarding/XboxLive360/XboxLive360index.htm but that hasn't been updated in a while, so doesn't have the DGL-4500. You find it else where on the Portforward site but all it is are the instructions for the DGL-4300 renamed for the 4500, same pictures and everything. But I digress, my point is as you see in the Portforward instructions they show how to use "Gaming" which is a port forwarding method. At first I thought they just left out the LAN IP, but noticed that is blank until you fill out your IP at the start of the page.

Heres what I think happened. Xbox gets alot of calls on NAT and configuration issues about people's router that is outside their support. Their Reps just send people to Portforward. Someone complains, either a customer or some Xbox boss, that they should have something specfic for Xbox. Xbox asks Portforward.com to make a specific group for 360 users. Portforward just draws from it's current image and instruction stock but makes it specific to Xbox ports. Portforward asks Xbox what ports they use. Xbox sends a list of ports "used" or required to be open. Portforward...being named portforward and all, instead shows how to forward the port. Forwarding a port does have the effect of opening it, like taking the door of it's hinge has the effect of opening it, so it works. No one actually stops and reads what they are telling people to do. Other forums read Xbox's support site and portforward it, then see other random ports opening up to their Xbox and think they must have been missed, and add it to their walk through. And the whole thing grows off each other until the whole thing is more about instructions then logic.

Ok, I didn't mean to go so deep there so I will simplify it to some main points.
1. 3074 needs to be forwarded, and only when something is keeping UPnP from working correctly. All the other ports just need to be open.

2. Gamefuel is for traffic prioritization only, and does not effect NAT or really even lag for that matter. It only really helps if you get lag when other people use the network when your playing a game. Proof of concept: Set up your router with GF rules and get everything to work, disable GF, turn off Xbox, reboot router, turn on Xbox. Is NAT still open? I bet 100 nerd points it will be.

3. Take note that the first suggestions Xbox makes for NAT problems is let UPnP do it. This is the easiest, and in most cases, the best way, specifically with multiple Xboxs. If UPnP isn't working, I would try to find out why instead of bypassing it. JMHO.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 11:21:49 PM by Hard Harry »
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FurryNutz

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2012, 07:05:05 AM »

God I want to make this thread a sticky...   ::)
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fraggboy

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2012, 08:27:39 AM »

The more the merrier.. ;)

Granted, the forum starts to get cluttered with all of the stickies..

Can you guys create one thread (Like a FAQ) and link back to the threads that were once stickied?  It would make it less cluttered.

..just a suggestion.  Not sure if you guys are allowed to do that or not.
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Hard Harry

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Re: Multiple Xbox's, game fuel and ports...
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2012, 11:41:25 AM »

Its a good idea. I think they are working on a couple possible ways of going about the same thing though. Could have a scrolling pane above the standard forum. Or a link back, like you suggested. Best idea I heard though is to use a sub-forum. But I don't think it should be manitory. Only in forums where there are 6 or more stickies. It would also help if they...nope, not going to do it. Won't go on a 3 page post. :-)

Long story short; Good idea!  8)
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