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Author Topic: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500  (Read 12890 times)

icemankent

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Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« on: April 13, 2012, 08:40:50 AM »

You have to take every review with a grain of salt.

For some, what they are "used to" is garbage, so practically "anything better" will seem like the greatest thing on earth.

I have been spoiled by owning a DGL-4500, it would seem.

My critique of DLink is probably that their newer devices (with newer UserInterface updates) took a step back for me.
I am not certain with which model and on what date DLink changed their "standard" UI, but they made some changes that I cannot stomach.
Some of these changes are part of the reason why I have inevitably decided to keep my dgl-4500.
Here's my take - below:

DIR-857 - What I LIKE:
- Power/range is the best I have seen so far for both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz (comparing it to Cisco e4200v2)
- Dual radios
- Media Server and USB 3.0 capability

Just so you know, it is not "all" bad, but my issues are primarily with the UI, as I will explain:

DIR-857 - BEEFS:
- As mentioned previously, the UI is a few steps "backward" from what the dgl-4500 has, in useability, presentation, and capability
- Fonts - The font size/type now used is too large, taking up space where they could actually fit more information - compared to the dgl-4500, the 857 looks "antiquated"
- Internet Sessions:  a visually ugly layout - in table format. BIGGEST beef here is that there is a lot of information, but they have OMITTED to display the "Priority".  So if you have set up QoS, you'd never see which internet sessions are using that QoS scheme (properly).  In other words, it is one thing to configure your device, but it is very satisfying to see that it is actually "working" in the manner that you set it up.  The dgl-4500 DOES show you the priority, by comparison.
- Wireless clients:  Very buggy.  It sometimes displayed all clients, but not always (both N and G).  It actually was quite unreliable - even though a wireless client was connected, it would not display it.
- Wireless clients:  Some clients that were set up for n, would flip between a and n for no apparent reason - even when the wireless device was 5 feet from the router !
- Wireless clients:  Some clients would not display their reserved dhcp address - only 0.0.0.0 - even though, on the actual device, it HAD the correct IP, and the device actually worked on the network - yet the router could not display the correct IP - buggy as all hell.
- DHCP Reservation of IPs:  As per above, there were issues in having the router "actually" give the address you specified to the actual device.  Yes I saved, and Yes I rebooted - yet sometimes it just wouldn't "take" - very frustrating.
- Reboot, Reboot, Reboot !!!:  For almost every change, it wants you to reboot.  Contrast this with the dgl-4500, which does not want you reboot for every mickey-mouse change you do.
- Reboot TIME:  Holy @#$!.  Not only do you have to reboot after every breath, when you DO reboot, it takes a lifetime - 60 SECONDS to reboot, and then another 30 SECONDS for it to fully come back up to being "useable".  The dgl-4500 takes 15 seconds to reboot and another 10 seconds for it to be fully back up and running/useable.  This reboot time is outrageous !
- UI speed:  Logging in, changing pages, etc, etc was noticeably SLOWER on the 857 vs the 4500 - I would say easily twice as slow.
- DHCP reservations and device names:  On the 4500, when I over-wrote a name for a device (for example if a printer had "UNKNOWN or something else that did not have much meaning" - I could over-write that with a name that was meaningful.  The kicker here is that the 4500 would "keep" that new name and use it everywhere on all pages that would display that device.  For some reason, on the 857, it only displays what "you" named it in the one dhcp reservations page - everywhere else it will only display what it saw via netbios, etc.  A total consistency letdown.
- Logs are garbage:  As stated before, DLink took a large step back here on their new UI (post the 4500 era).  The type of info in the logs is not very helpful or user-friendly.  To make it worse, on the 4500, the FONT was nice, plus it displayed ALL of the logs on ONE page.  On the 857, it gives you about 5 lines or so, and then has you do "next page" to see the rest.  Well as you know the logs fill up FAST in a router - so who on earth likes to have to click "next page" when there are 27 or more pages to view ?  It is like tunnel-vision instead of peripheral vision.

LOGS on 857:
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: read /var/tmp/hosts - 1 addresses
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: read /etc/hosts - 2 addresses
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: using nameserver 64.71.255.198#53
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: reading /etc/resolv.conf
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: compile time options: IPv6 GNU-getopt no-MMU ISC-leasefile no-DOCTOR no-NOWILD no-DBus no-I18N TFTP
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: started, version 2.45 cachesize 150
Apr 12 21:34:51 DIR-857 user.debug syslog: gpio create pidfile /var/run/gpio_power.pid
Apr 12 21:34:50 DIR-857 daemon.info avahi-daemon[1277]: avahi-daemon 0.6.30 exiting.


LOGS in 4500:
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:28:33 2012 Sending log email before reboot 
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:57 2012 Allowed configuration authentication by IP address 192.168.0.67 
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:53 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 00215C2A480D disconnected for reason: Received Deauthentication 
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:36 2012 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 96.30.153.114:39883 to 99.241.118.57:63764 
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:25:38 2012 Blocked TCP packet from 89.89.170.227:59512 to 99.241.118.57:443 as control FIN:SYN in not valid 
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 889FFA5E8CE7 secured and linked 
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 889FFA5E8CE7 associated 
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 Above message repeated 1 times 

Geez, now which one do "you" think is actually useful between the two ?  Seriously DLink - what's up with your new way to display log information ?  Useless.

- Technical Terms:  On the 2.4GHz wireless setup, there is a HT20/40 "coexistence" setting - that I have never seen before, and there is no explanation of what it is/how it is used.
- QoS setup - Very messy on the screen.  I like the way the 4500 has arranged the UI screen much much better.

Final thoughts:
If my 4500 were to bite the dust tomorrow, I would probably buy the latest Netgear and test it out before deciding whether or not I wanted to own the 857.
There is a ton of buggy behavior in the 857, and annoyances as I have pointed out above that would make me hesitant to own it.
If you can get past all of that, and once you set up your router, then "never look under the hood again", then you might be happy.
If you want a router that has a strong signal, then this is a good purchase for you.
In the end, for the money, I'll stick with my 4500 until something much better comes along - and it may not be a DLink product.
It would be nice if they actually took our feedback to heart and did some more development on their UI.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 09:24:29 AM »

You have to take every review with a grain of salt.

For some, what they are "used to" is garbage, so practically "anything better" will seem like the greatest thing on earth.

I have been spoiled by owning a DGL-4500, it would seem.

My critique of DLink is probably that their newer devices (with newer UserInterface updates) took a step back for me.
I am not certain with which model and on what date DLink changed their "standard" UI, but they made some changes that I cannot stomach.
Some of these changes are part of the reason why I have inevitably decided to keep my dgl-4500.
Here's my take - below:

DIR-857 - What I LIKE:
- Power/range is the best I have seen so far for both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz (comparing it to Cisco e4200v2)
- Dual radios
- Media Server and USB 3.0 capability

Just so you know, it is not "all" bad, but my issues are primarily with the UI, as I will explain:

DIR-857 - BEEFS:
- As mentioned previously, the UI is a few steps "backward" from what the dgl-4500 has, in useability, presentation, and capability. You do realize they are using the DIR UI vs DGL UI right? What browser are you using to display the UI?

- Fonts - The font size/type now used is too large, taking up space where they could actually fit more information - compared to the dgl-4500, the 857 looks "antiquated" Can you post a screen capture of the UI?

- Internet Sessions:  a visually ugly layout - in table format. BIGGEST beef here is that there is a lot of information, but they have OMITTED to display the "Priority".  So if you have set up QoS, you'd never see which internet sessions are using that QoS scheme (properly).  In other words, it is one thing to configure your device, but it is very satisfying to see that it is actually "working" in the manner that you set it up.  The dgl-4500 DOES show you the priority, by comparison.
- Wireless clients:  Very buggy.  It sometimes displayed all clients, but not always (both N and G).  It actually was quite unreliable - even though a wireless client was connected, it would not display it. How many wireless clients do you have connected a the time you looked at the status window? Anything more than 2 or 3 or was it just 1?

- Wireless clients:  Some clients that were set up for n, would flip between a and n for no apparent reason - even when the wireless device was 5 feet from the router ! Was this on 2.4 or 5Ghz? or both? How many clients were connected when you saw this?

- Wireless clients:  Some clients would not display their reserved dhcp address - only 0.0.0.0 - even though, on the actual device, it HAD the correct IP, and the device actually worked on the network - yet the router could not display the correct IP - buggy as all hell. Where was this not being displayed at? Network settings? Status? How many client devices were connected at the time? Does wired devices display or exhibit the same thing?

- DHCP Reservation of IPs:  As per above, there were issues in having the router "actually" give the address you specified to the actual device.  Yes I saved, and Yes I rebooted - yet sometimes it just wouldn't "take" - very frustrating. Wonder if someone should have a look via teamviewer at your router.

- Reboot, Reboot, Reboot !!!:  For almost every change, it wants you to reboot.  Contrast this with the dgl-4500, which does not want you reboot for every mickey-mouse change you do. Do you see the REBOOT LATER option? The DGL did this as well. Both DGL and the 857 have the REBOOT LATER option.
- Reboot TIME:  Holy @#$!.  Not only do you have to reboot after every breath, when you DO reboot, it takes a lifetime - 60 SECONDS to reboot, and then another 30 SECONDS for it to fully come back up to being "useable".  The dgl-4500 takes 15 seconds to reboot and another 10 seconds for it to be fully back up and running/useable.  This reboot time is outrageous ! The DGL had a long reboot if changing some of the options as well. I would agree that reboot could be made a bit faster. However if your making changes and using the reboot later option, I'd rather have the router make the changes correctly in a timely manor than be rushed to set up something incorrectly.

- UI speed:  Logging in, changing pages, etc, etc was noticeably SLOWER on the 857 vs the 4500 - I would say easily twice as slow. What browser are you using? Any 3rd party security SW enabled while doing this? Does this happen on different browsers? Try Opera, or FF?

- DHCP reservations and device names:  On the 4500, when I over-wrote a name for a device (for example if a printer had "UNKNOWN or something else that did not have much meaning" - I could over-write that with a name that was meaningful.  The kicker here is that the 4500 would "keep" that new name and use it everywhere on all pages that would display that device.  For some reason, on the 857, it only displays what "you" named it in the one dhcp reservations page - everywhere else it will only display what it saw via netbios, etc.  A total consistency letdown. I too have notice that after changing the name that its listed in the Reserved list however thru out the rest of the web page, its reported as unknown or blank. I would like to see this fixed if possible.

- Logs are garbage:  As stated before, DLink took a large step back here on their new UI (post the 4500 era).  The type of info in the logs is not very helpful or user-friendly.  To make it worse, on the 4500, the FONT was nice, plus it displayed ALL of the logs on ONE page.  On the 857, it gives you about 5 lines or so, and then has you do "next page" to see the rest.  Well as you know the logs fill up FAST in a router - so who on earth likes to have to click "next page" when there are 27 or more pages to view ?  It is like tunnel-vision instead of peripheral vision.

LOGS on 857:
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: read /var/tmp/hosts - 1 addresses
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: read /etc/hosts - 2 addresses
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: using nameserver 64.71.255.198#53
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: reading /etc/resolv.conf
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: compile time options: IPv6 GNU-getopt no-MMU ISC-leasefile no-DOCTOR no-NOWILD no-DBus no-I18N TFTP
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: started, version 2.45 cachesize 150
Apr 12 21:34:51 DIR-857 user.debug syslog: gpio create pidfile /var/run/gpio_power.pid
Apr 12 21:34:50 DIR-857 daemon.info avahi-daemon[1277]: avahi-daemon 0.6.30 exiting.


LOGS in 4500:
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:28:33 2012 Sending log email before reboot  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:57 2012 Allowed configuration authentication by IP address 192.168.0.67  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:53 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 00215C2A480D disconnected for reason: Received Deauthentication  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:36 2012 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 96.30.153.114:39883 to 99.241.118.57:63764  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:25:38 2012 Blocked TCP packet from 89.89.170.227:59512 to 99.241.118.57:443 as control FIN:SYN in not valid  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 889FFA5E8CE7 secured and linked  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 889FFA5E8CE7 associated  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 Above message repeated 1 times  

Geez, now which one do "you" think is actually useful between the two ?  Seriously DLink - what's up with your new way to display log information ?  Useless. To some point the details of the logs on the 857 are a bit out of average or home user understanding and do agree that Dlink could probable make the logs a bit more understanding in la-mans terms or at least segregate the detailed technical logs to the DEBUG section when used and then leave more of a summery logging when not using debug. I go agree that some of the information on the 857 logs is a bit beyond me.

- Technical Terms:  On the 2.4GHz wireless setup, there is a HT20/40 "coexistence" setting - that I have never seen before, and there is no explanation of what it is/how it is used. I agree, there needs to be a help menu information regarding this. Even searching the web is kind of limited on information. 20/40 MHz Coexistence

- QoS setup - Very messy on the screen.  I like the way the 4500 has arranged the UI screen much much better. Again, this is using the DIR QoS UI and do agree that DLink could clean it up a bit more and make each section a bit more distinguishable.

Final thoughts:
If my 4500 were to bite the dust tomorrow, I would probably buy the latest Netgear and test it out before deciding whether or not I wanted to own the 857.
There is a ton of buggy behavior in the 857, and annoyances as I have pointed out above that would make me hesitant to own it.
If you can get past all of that, and once you set up your router, then "never look under the hood again", then you might be happy.
If you want a router that has a strong signal, then this is a good purchase for you.
In the end, for the money, I'll stick with my 4500 until something much better comes along - and it may not be a DLink product.
It would be nice if they actually took our feedback to heart and did some more development on their UI.

Yes, it seems you are quiet picky.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 09:47:05 AM by FurryNutz »
Logged
Cable:200mb/10Mb>NetGear C7800>DIR-882>DGS-1100>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-3902/2202/1203,DIR-2680,890L,882,880L,868L,DNR-202L,DNS-345x2,DCS-933L,936L and 960L.
Go Here>Router Troubleshooting

JavaLawyer

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 12:00:12 PM »

The majority of the OP's criticisms are purely cosmetic, not based on performance or functionality. And frankly speaking, once a router is properly configured, the UI (at least for most people) is only used for routine maintenance, periodic performance optimization, and hopefully not-to-frequent troubleshooting.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 12:20:35 PM by JavaLawyer »
Logged
Find answers here: D-Link ShareCenter FAQ I D-Link Network Camera FAQ
There's no such thing as too many backups FFC

FurryNutz

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 12:07:19 PM »

And now that the OP has returned the unit, some of the findings can't be substantiated or troubleshot to find out if he has an actual problem with the HW or this is end user misconfiguration.  :-\
Logged
Cable:200mb/10Mb>NetGear C7800>DIR-882>DGS-1100>HP 24pt Gb Switch. COVR-3902/2202/1203,DIR-2680,890L,882,880L,868L,DNR-202L,DNS-345x2,DCS-933L,936L and 960L.
Go Here>Router Troubleshooting

icemankent

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 12:37:43 PM »

LoL - yes I (am) quite picky !!
:-)

I understand where you are going with your replies to me, as you are trying to ascertain if there is some "outside" force that is causing the issues I noted.
Let me just say that the reason I called this an 857 vs 4500 comparison was because I wanted to paint the difference between the two devices - given that "nothing" in my network has changed.
Thankfully when setting up the 857, the general setup is identical - except for the addition of the separate radio.
So, web browser, number of wireless/wired clients, placement of router, etc, etc are identical.
There were no new elements introduced between swapping the two routers.

To your point on the UI, no - I was not aware there was a DGL version and a DIR version.
Perhaps that is my main concern here.
I do not like the DIR version of the UI.  Actuallly, that is a rather nice way to describe how I feel about it :-)

I will add to your comments below - and thanks for the input FurryNutz - these discussions are great !
:-)

You have to take every review with a grain of salt.

For some, what they are "used to" is garbage, so practically "anything better" will seem like the greatest thing on earth.

I have been spoiled by owning a DGL-4500, it would seem.

My critique of DLink is probably that their newer devices (with newer UserInterface updates) took a step back for me.
I am not certain with which model and on what date DLink changed their "standard" UI, but they made some changes that I cannot stomach.
Some of these changes are part of the reason why I have inevitably decided to keep my dgl-4500.
Here's my take - below:

DIR-857 - What I LIKE:
- Power/range is the best I have seen so far for both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz (comparing it to Cisco e4200v2)
- Dual radios
- Media Server and USB 3.0 capability

Just so you know, it is not "all" bad, but my issues are primarily with the UI, as I will explain:

DIR-857 - BEEFS:
- As mentioned previously, the UI is a few steps "backward" from what the dgl-4500 has, in useability, presentation, and capability. You do realize they are using the DIR UI vs DGL UI right? What browser are you using to display the UI?
I had no idea there were different UI's for DGL vs DIR - thanks for pointing that out.  I used IE9 and the latest Firefox - but as stated (wayyy above), this is a comparison between the two routers in an identical environment, so if it was snappy-fast with the DGL, and noticeably slower with the DIR, then it is the router.

- Fonts - The font size/type now used is too large, taking up space where they could actually fit more information - compared to the dgl-4500, the 857 looks "antiquated" Can you post a screen capture of the UI?
Sadly I returned the 857 today and did not take screen captures.  (I will for the next router I crash-test).

- Internet Sessions:  a visually ugly layout - in table format. BIGGEST beef here is that there is a lot of information, but they have OMITTED to display the "Priority".  So if you have set up QoS, you'd never see which internet sessions are using that QoS scheme (properly).  In other words, it is one thing to configure your device, but it is very satisfying to see that it is actually "working" in the manner that you set it up.  The dgl-4500 DOES show you the priority, by comparison.
- Wireless clients:  Very buggy.  It sometimes displayed all clients, but not always (both N and G).  It actually was quite unreliable - even though a wireless client was connected, it would not display it. How many wireless clients do you have connected a the time you looked at the status window? Anything more than 2 or 3 or was it just 1?
My environment did not change.  7 wireless clients consisting of 2 laptops, 1 iphone4, 1 blackberry9900, 2 ps3s, and 1 wireless printer.  Once again, no change to setup/environment - no problems with DGL, but issues with the DIR.

- Wireless clients:  Some clients that were set up for n, would flip between a and n for no apparent reason - even when the wireless device was 5 feet from the router ! Was this on 2.4 or 5Ghz? or both? How many clients were connected when you saw this?
I had 2.4GHz set up as g-only, and 5GHz set up as n-only.  It was the n clients that were flipping to a, and then n, for no apparent reason - and even weirder was that I was only a few feet away from the router !

- Wireless clients:  Some clients would not display their reserved dhcp address - only 0.0.0.0 - even though, on the actual device, it HAD the correct IP, and the device actually worked on the network - yet the router could not display the correct IP - buggy as all hell. Where was this not being displayed at? Network settings? Status? How many client devices were connected at the time? Does wired devices display or exhibit the same thing?
This was in the status/wireless page - where all currently connected wireless clients are listed.
No, wired devices did not exhibit this anomaly.


- DHCP Reservation of IPs:  As per above, there were issues in having the router "actually" give the address you specified to the actual device.  Yes I saved, and Yes I rebooted - yet sometimes it just wouldn't "take" - very frustrating. Wonder if someone should have a look via teamviewer at your router.
That would be extremely difficult since I returned the 857 to the store already  ;D

- Reboot, Reboot, Reboot !!!:  For almost every change, it wants you to reboot.  Contrast this with the dgl-4500, which does not want you reboot for every mickey-mouse change you do. Do you see the REBOOT LATER option? The DGL did this as well. Both DGL and the 857 have the REBOOT LATER option.
- Reboot TIME:  Holy @#$!.  Not only do you have to reboot after every breath, when you DO reboot, it takes a lifetime - 60 SECONDS to reboot, and then another 30 SECONDS for it to fully come back up to being "useable".  The dgl-4500 takes 15 seconds to reboot and another 10 seconds for it to be fully back up and running/useable.  This reboot time is outrageous ! The DGL had a long reboot if changing some of the options as well. I would agree that reboot could be made a bit faster. However if your making changes and using the reboot later option, I'd rather have the router make the changes correctly in a timely manor than be rushed to set up something incorrectly.
Well, thankfully yes, on the DIR you had the option to reboot "later", but it was still frustrating to do an actual reboot because of the time it took to complete the cycle.

- UI speed:  Logging in, changing pages, etc, etc was noticeably SLOWER on the 857 vs the 4500 - I would say easily twice as slow. What browser are you using? Any 3rd party security SW enabled while doing this? Does this happen on different browsers? Try Opera, or FF?
Same environment, no changes, IE9, Firefox, compared to the DGL it was noticeably slower.

- DHCP reservations and device names:  On the 4500, when I over-wrote a name for a device (for example if a printer had "UNKNOWN or something else that did not have much meaning" - I could over-write that with a name that was meaningful.  The kicker here is that the 4500 would "keep" that new name and use it everywhere on all pages that would display that device.  For some reason, on the 857, it only displays what "you" named it in the one dhcp reservations page - everywhere else it will only display what it saw via netbios, etc.  A total consistency letdown. I too have notice that after changing the name that its listed in the Reserved list however thru out the rest of the web page, its reported as unknown or blank. I would like to see this fixed if possible.

- Logs are garbage:  As stated before, DLink took a large step back here on their new UI (post the 4500 era).  The type of info in the logs is not very helpful or user-friendly.  To make it worse, on the 4500, the FONT was nice, plus it displayed ALL of the logs on ONE page.  On the 857, it gives you about 5 lines or so, and then has you do "next page" to see the rest.  Well as you know the logs fill up FAST in a router - so who on earth likes to have to click "next page" when there are 27 or more pages to view ?  It is like tunnel-vision instead of peripheral vision.

LOGS on 857:
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: read /var/tmp/hosts - 1 addresses
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: read /etc/hosts - 2 addresses
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: using nameserver 64.71.255.198#53
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: reading /etc/resolv.conf
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: compile time options: IPv6 GNU-getopt no-MMU ISC-leasefile no-DOCTOR no-NOWILD no-DBus no-I18N TFTP
Apr 12 21:34:52 DIR-857 daemon.info dnsmasq[1841]: started, version 2.45 cachesize 150
Apr 12 21:34:51 DIR-857 user.debug syslog: gpio create pidfile /var/run/gpio_power.pid
Apr 12 21:34:50 DIR-857 daemon.info avahi-daemon[1277]: avahi-daemon 0.6.30 exiting.


LOGS in 4500:
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:28:33 2012 Sending log email before reboot  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:57 2012 Allowed configuration authentication by IP address 192.168.0.67  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:53 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 00215C2A480D disconnected for reason: Received Deauthentication  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:27:36 2012 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 96.30.153.114:39883 to 99.241.118.57:63764  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:25:38 2012 Blocked TCP packet from 89.89.170.227:59512 to 99.241.118.57:443 as control FIN:SYN in not valid  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 889FFA5E8CE7 secured and linked  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 iceman: Wireless system with MAC address 889FFA5E8CE7 associated  
[INFO] Thu Apr 12 23:22:37 2012 Above message repeated 1 times  

Geez, now which one do "you" think is actually useful between the two ?  Seriously DLink - what's up with your new way to display log information ?  Useless. To some point the details of the logs on the 857 are a bit out of average or home user understanding and do agree that Dlink could probable make the logs a bit more understanding in la-mans terms or at least segregate the detailed technical logs to the DEBUG section when used and then leave more of a summery logging when not using debug. I go agree that some of the information on the 857 logs is a bit beyond me.
Well at least you agree with me on something ! LoL  :D

- Technical Terms:  On the 2.4GHz wireless setup, there is a HT20/40 "coexistence" setting - that I have never seen before, and there is no explanation of what it is/how it is used. I agree, there needs to be a help menu information regarding this. Even searching the web is kind of limited on information. 20/40 MHz Coexistence

- QoS setup - Very messy on the screen.  I like the way the 4500 has arranged the UI screen much much better. Again, this is using the DIR QoS UI and do agree that DLink could clean it up a bit more and make each section a bit more distinguishable.

Final thoughts:
If my 4500 were to bite the dust tomorrow, I would probably buy the latest Netgear and test it out before deciding whether or not I wanted to own the 857.
There is a ton of buggy behavior in the 857, and annoyances as I have pointed out above that would make me hesitant to own it.
If you can get past all of that, and once you set up your router, then "never look under the hood again", then you might be happy.
If you want a router that has a strong signal, then this is a good purchase for you.
In the end, for the money, I'll stick with my 4500 until something much better comes along - and it may not be a DLink product.
It would be nice if they actually took our feedback to heart and did some more development on their UI.

Yes, it seems you are quiet picky.  ;D
Indeed, I am :-)
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FurryNutz

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 01:03:21 PM »

Well in all honesty, I'm glad you picky man. Your feedback, I hope, will help whom ever will be looking at it, at DLink, will take it to heart and consider making the changes. It is a good router. Really nothing as great since the 4500 and 825, has there been really anything to be all excited about IMO. I think it's got a great start. I do think there is some room from changes and growth. There is another issue that I hope Dlink can resolve, QoS on uplinks higher than 2Mb. Seeing some contention and issues with the next gen routers.  ::) And they know about it.

One thing I noticed on the DIR series routers, wireless status only seems to want to display only 3 items in the status window. Anything more then that, just wont. Might be as designed considering it's just for doing that, checking status and in the time allotted for the web page before it times out and logs out. So maybe only 3 is allowed. I don't know. I noticed this on the 655 as well as others asked about it there.

Over all, the 857 is a great router and being that it's new, like most electronic stuff, will probably have some forms of fault and issues. I'm sure Dlink will endeavor to make the changes and correct them as this is probably going to be there new flag ship router. Time will tell.

See you on the 4500 forum.

 ;)
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icemankent

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 07:20:04 PM »

Well, lets just say that hardware-wise, this router is a winner.
When checking my area with inSSIDer, the 857's signal strength was a LOT stronger than anything else in my neighborhood, and was about 10dbm better than the 4500 in the 2.4GHz band.
They're definitely doing the power output scheme very well, so kudos to them for that.

I'll keep checking in on this forum, as I will be curious to see if certain tweaks make their way into the UI, that would lead me back to the fold.

Interesting that you mention the limit of 3 wireless clients displayed - because now that you mention it - I never did see any more than 3 in the list.  That is definitely something they will need to fix.

I look at it another way, though - I tested out the flagship Cisco e4200v2, and while it, too "worked" - its UI was in the dark ages compared with the DLink DIR UI.
So, DLink still wins on that front.

I am sure DLink will come around eventually with enhancements that add some of the functionality I mentioned, to make a very good product even better.  Time will tell.

Enjoy yours !
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Lycan

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 04:52:46 PM »


DGL-4500 and DIR-857 are the SAME platform just years apart. What I mean is the 4500 using the IP5K CPU and the 857 uses a IP8K. Both routers are using a ipOS based Ubicom OS running Busybox skinned with the D-Link UI.

The "new" UI that has been refered to to has been the standard since BEFORE the DGL-4500. The DGL "Gamer Lounge"  was the divergent product and in fact we only made 3 product with the Gamer Lounge UI and that sorta speaks for itself.

As for the DGL being faster, no way. Not possible. Just based on the state-table entry capacity alone the DIR-857 wins.  I've used every consumer router D-link has developed (prototypes and not) in the last 6 years, and the DIR-857 is by far the most capable and hardy product yet. The last time D-Link had developed something this robust was the DIR-655A1.

The 857 is not without some....quirks, that Technical Services is working diligently with the PM team to resolve. On of those is the well known QoS limitation that appears to be platform wide but none of these are product limitations that can't be corrected via minor firmware upgrades.
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icemankent

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 08:12:26 AM »

Lycan,

Can you comment on some of the quirks ?

FurryNutz had pointed out some - (for example, you can only display 3 wireless connected clients at a time), etc.
I had named a few as well - but I am really curious if you know:
- why the reboot time is so long versus the dgl-4500
- why the logs are so cryptic vs the dgl-4500, and show endless "pages" of info instead of all in one page
- why the information displayed (for example, internet sessions page, does not display the "priority" in the table) is a step backward from how the dgl shows it

For look-and-feel of the UI, I definitely prefer the dgl-4500.
For performance of actual routing, wireless signal strength, etc - yes the 857 wins for sure.

I will definitely keep scanning this forum to look for feedback on enhancements that would push me towards taking another test drive of the 857.


Thanks !
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 08:14:35 AM by icemankent »
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icemankent

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 11:07:35 AM »

I am looking forward to seeing more people owning this router - to see their relative feedback on their experiences.
I understand that this router is slowly becoming more available for purchase, so we should start seeing a lot more commentary on it in this forum going forward.

I want this router (again) - but for me, I will wait until some of the issues that bugged me are mitigated first.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 07:22:42 AM »

Time will tell.
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motherfo

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2012, 07:47:04 PM »

It would be nice if Dlink used a clean UI like the gamerlounge products.  UI is becoming more and more prevalent these days.

FurryNutz

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Re: Dir-857 vs DGL-4500
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 01:09:35 PM »

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