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Author Topic: Bridging  (Read 17529 times)

Patrick533

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2011, 10:15:50 AM »

Hi Fox,

Well try B and G modes just to make sure, but at 93%, I doubt if that is the problem. Your channels are not interfering.

Honestly you could do this with 2 high power routers and the outdoor antennas, but you already have a lot tied up so lets try and make what you have work.

Furry, this is more your specialty, but I am thinking duplicate IP addresses or packet collisions.

Are the routers all running different IP addresses? I put a router in place last week and forgot to change the IP addresses, it took me a couple of minutes before I got it working correctly.

Some routers are sensitive to how fast they get an acknowledgment packet back from another client, that is why I say try B mode, N is the most sensitive. Is their a setting for short GI, if so disable it.

This may cause some work, but if you put the 2 AP's in the same room and test from one computer to another, how is the transfer rate? If the AP's work OK in the same room, and short GI is disabled, lock it to G mode only. I don't us that AP, but I can get a manual. If you have already tested them at close range, let me know and I will download a manual.

Pat



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Foxmaster

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2011, 10:27:27 AM »

Hi Pat,

I have not tested them at close range.

I don't have ip conflicts in the network. The wifi for this lan uses 192.168.100.0/24 and the ap is using .50-53 on the SG50 Dmz I am running 5 servers and on the Aux interface I have a wifi hotspot for the coffe shop my wife is running. All separated on different subnets.

The 1360 only have b,g,n mode and n,g mode or only n mode. right now Iam running b,g,n mode. short GI is disabled.

Yesterday I did try and hook the 2100 up but it couldent see the 1360 at all ??

Regards

Fox
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Patrick533

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2011, 11:47:25 AM »

Hi Fox,

I am thinking you may have a bad AP. The new solder that is used for ROHS does not lend itself well to travel and cold, it also leads to a lot of failures. It sounds like you know what you are doing IP wise.

I would test the ap's at 5-10M and check for proper operation. If it is a range issue or a bad router, that will tell us by testing it at short range. If it is a range issue, I am an engineer, I will look into the manual and see if we can make it "long distance" tolerant. If it is a bad AP, I know the EU has better warranties then the US. Being short GI is disabled, this is usually a major culprit. I have 2 high power WiFi networks at home (1 watt W/ 5Dbi antennas), one with short GI enabled and 40Mhz bandwidth, the other with short GI disabled and 20Mhz bandwidth.

The US and the EU are using this new ROHS method for soldering, it is required for everything but military. I hate it and predicted problems like this 15 years ago!

V/R,

Pat
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Foxmaster

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2011, 12:49:35 PM »

Hi Pat,

I will fetch the other 1360 tomorrow and test it.

This is how I intend to test it:

1. place the ap 5M apart
2. Connect a computer to each ap using wire
3. configure it as bridge
4. Run Iperf both direction and past the result here-

Got one more question.

Why cant I connect my 2100 up against the 1360, it can't see is at all for some reason?

I am myself a tech in the company that makes the software for d-links dfl series, so I guess you can say that I know my way around networks :)

If you want access to check the configuration of the wifi net, I can set up a ssl tunnel or a l2tp/ipsec tunnel for you to use?

Regards
Fox
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Patrick533

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2011, 01:49:23 PM »

Hi Fox,

That is a good test configuration and will tell us all we need to know.

Why cant I connect my 2100 up against the 1360, it can't see is at all for some reason?


That is a great question, unless one is "N" mode and the other not, that was my first hint of a problem.

No need for a VPN at this point, I think you are doing everything fine, I am leaning towards a hardware failure at this time.

V/R

Pat
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Foxmaster

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2011, 02:34:57 AM »

Here are the results from the test.

5M apart:
[ ID] Interval       Transfer     Bandwidth
[  4]  0.0-11.2 sec  2.00 MBytes  10.49 Mbits/sec
[  5]  0.0-12.2 sec   1.7 MBytes   8.6 Mbits/sec

And this is 300M:
[  5]  0.0-32.5 sec   384 KBytes  96.8 Kbits/sec
[  4]  0.0-34.1 sec   256 KBytes  61.5 Kbits/sec

Now I did some more testing when the ap's was 300M apart, I disabled encryption so I only use bridging with mac address security.
[ ID] Interval       Transfer     Bandwidth
[  4]  0.0-11.2 sec  2.00 MBytes  1.49 Mbits/sec
[  5]  0.0-12.2 sec   640 KBytes   429 Kbits/sec

Conclusion this ap seems to have CPU problems, It probably has more issues most likely related to the code of the produkt.
I should have tested it in different modes like ap,repeter and so on but when I removed the encryption and saw the improvement I got eager to try it on 300M distance.

So I think I will get 2 new ones and use these as repeaters in the coffe shop.

But do anyone in here have any recommendation on a good wifi ap/router that I can use ( not to expensive)
I need it to have possibility's to hook up a external antenna and if I could use the N standard it would be very good.

/Fox
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Foxmaster

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2011, 09:58:02 AM »

Hi Pat,

Those look interesting, how much bw do you think I can expect to get from these?

Today we got a paper in the mail about the dir-600 for 29 euro and it can be flashed with alternative software!

Do you have any experience with this unit?

Otherwise I will order 2 of those argtek units.

/Fox
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FurryNutz

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2011, 10:26:44 AM »

Just FYI, been told that TPIK encryption isn't the best for performance and AES is way better. Since you turned of security, ya there is no additional processing so the speeds should be better.
My 2 cents.

Here are the results from the test.

5M apart:
[ ID] Interval       Transfer     Bandwidth
[  4]  0.0-11.2 sec  2.00 MBytes  10.49 Mbits/sec
[  5]  0.0-12.2 sec   1.7 MBytes   8.6 Mbits/sec

And this is 300M:
[  5]  0.0-32.5 sec   384 KBytes  96.8 Kbits/sec
[  4]  0.0-34.1 sec   256 KBytes  61.5 Kbits/sec

Now I did some more testing when the ap's was 300M apart, I disabled encryption so I only use bridging with mac address security.
[ ID] Interval       Transfer     Bandwidth
[  4]  0.0-11.2 sec  2.00 MBytes  1.49 Mbits/sec
[  5]  0.0-12.2 sec   640 KBytes   429 Kbits/sec

Conclusion this ap seems to have CPU problems, It probably has more issues most likely related to the code of the produkt.
I should have tested it in different modes like ap,repeter and so on but when I removed the encryption and saw the improvement I got eager to try it on 300M distance.

So I think I will get 2 new ones and use these as repeaters in the coffe shop.

But do anyone in here have any recommendation on a good wifi ap/router that I can use ( not to expensive)
I need it to have possibility's to hook up a external antenna and if I could use the N standard it would be very good.

/Fox

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Foxmaster

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2011, 10:49:51 AM »

Hi Fuzz,

Yepp I got better speed when I turned of encryption as expected, but do you think it's good?

There is one more fact to this and that is that the 1360 has 2 antennas and I am only using one for my external antenna, this could make it behave bad.

/Fox
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Patrick533

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2011, 11:05:17 AM »

In "N" mode, you can get upto 300Mbps with a pair of those Chinese routers, there are too many variables to calculate, but with those antennas you have at 300m you should get at least 150Mbps with the Chinese routers.

My feelings are if you were using a low power AP before, you already have the antennas in place, the D-Links will be fine, but they are end of life here in the states, so little or no firmware updates. BUT the fact you can put the 3rd party software on them is a plus, really don't care about software updates in that case. If you did not have the big antennas already, I would say go with more power. But since you already have the antennas, I think you can't beat the D-Link quality!

The Chinese routers vs the D-Link, the D-Link is a high quality product and supports the 3rd party firmware, the Chinese never will have a 3rd party software. Heck, I have written for tech support on the Chinese ones, there is none!

If you really need the power later, you can always go with a cheap amp for the dir-600 and have the best of both worlds, quality and power!

The reason I did not go with just amplifiers and a good D-Link router is because I have the DIR-825 dual band, 2.4/5ghz. No dual band amps yet, for you, the amps and having quality hardware to back them up would be my choice.

(I would go with the D-Link)

The other reason I bought the DIR-825, IPV6 GOLD certified, and I use IPV6 everyday.

Another downside of the Chinese AP's, I would NOT trust their firewall. Good as an AP, no way for a firewall/router on the internet. I would worry about back doors if they were used as a firewall.

You have a pretty amazing system, I don't think you will go wrong with D-Link..... You can't beat a good antenna system!

V/r,

Pat

  



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Patrick533

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2011, 11:14:38 AM »

Also the major upside of the DIR-600, a single antenna port, easier to amplify if needed.

AES is a better security choice. But your speeds still seem slow on the 5m test??

With 2 antennas they both receive and transmit, usually, it just takes the strongest signal from the antenna.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2011, 11:17:00 AM »

Fox, You need to use both antenna connections to effectively use the devices signal as I believe both are used to broadcast the radio signals. If your trying to split them you might be causing some signal degradation.

I recommend that since your trying to go a good distance, I would probably go the way of what Patrick talked about in that PM. I think your trying to use devices, that over all should work ok, however your trying to stretch the signal range and your probably on the upper limits of what these devices can do and then try to maintain a good stable connection and speeds. I think you really need to get the signal going better using a more efficient wireless system then trying to bridge and make signals go as far as they can.

My 2 cents.
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Foxmaster

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2011, 11:41:20 AM »

Thx both Fuzz and Pat for the support and guidance you are giving.

I will go for the 600 then mostly because I can pick it up after work and play with it when I get home :)

Regards
Fox
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tintronic

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2012, 09:59:57 PM »

I don't seem to have read you trying to disable SuperG on the 2100s to test 1360's speeds.
Let me tell you what happened to me. I'm using 6 (six) 2100s on the same subnet mask with FW version v2.50na and I can see them all with the AP Manager in windows. This is my setup:

My router is cabled to 3 (local) 2100's, which are cabled to 3 yagui antennas on the same post, facing West, South and SSW (South-SouthWest).
Each of the 3 2100's is WDS paired to another (remote) 2100 at a distance between 1 and 1.5 km.
Each pair uses a different SSID and a different channel (1,6 and 11 obviously).
Security is set to WPA.
Two of the remote 2100's are about 100m apart from each other and have a grid antenna, the third one is about 600m apart and uses another yagui antenna.
Speed is set to 802.11g at autorate, SuperG is disabled.

When I tried enabling superG on any of the 2100's connected to the router, all hell broke loose and I was unable to see any of the remote 2100's. I don't remeber if I enabled superG on any of the remote 2100's, but I do remember a couple of times I had to go to the remote 2100s and connect my notebook through the ethernet port to get the link back up again.
My conclusion is that this happens because, as far as I know, SuperG uses the whole 2.4GHz spectrum, from Channel 1 to channel 11, to be able to reach 108Mbps, interferring with the other two 2100s (technically saturating the other two receivers).

In your case, the 2100s have external antennas with gain, so if either is pointing to (or too close to) an 1360, maybe the 66% signal strenght you see is actually from one of the 2100s. Moreover, you don't only need a high signal strenght but a high SNR (signal to noise ratio), meaning the 2100 is giving your 1360 a lot of strenght, but in the form of noise. Can you see TX and RX receiving rate on the 1360s?

I actually stumbled on this thread because of something totally unrelated to your problem. I'm trying to find out if one could bridge (pair) an 2100 to an 1360. Since you have both AP models, have you (or can you) try this? I want to replace one of the 2100's because it has a faulty ethernet port and up untill now it had only been used in WDS+AP mode for Wireless clients.

Thanks and good luck!
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Foxmaster

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Re: Bridging
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2012, 04:52:36 AM »

Hi tintronic,

I did test to use the 1360 in bridged mode against the 2100 but without luck I am afraid to say.

It actually couldn't see it at all.

Fox
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