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Author Topic: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!  (Read 152018 times)

motopsycho

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2010, 06:18:33 AM »

I have always purchased WD drives but is it the best option for the 323?

Is the WD20EADS compatible?  I want to go as big as I can go.   ;D
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gunrunnerjohn

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2010, 06:40:11 AM »

Look for drives WITHOUT the new 4k sector option, you'll be happy you did. :)
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Remember: Data you don't have two copies of is data you don't care about!
PS: RAID of any level is NOT a second copy.

tentimes

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2010, 07:40:18 AM »

I have always purchased WD drives but is it the best option for the 323?

Is the WD20EADS compatible?  I want to go as big as I can go.   ;D

The EADS are fine, they are not 4k sector I believe - double check on the WD website though. For the 4k sector drives if you are not using them in RAID and just using standalone then I strongly suspect there will be a BIOS fix, but in the meantime I have posted a fix (which won't be too hard to code in firmware): http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=14484.0

In terms of RAID though, WD have really ****ed that one up rayally by disabling the TLER bit. I think this is a terrible strategy, but until they reverse the decision I defintely would not touch these for RAID. Don't confuse the 4k sector problem with the RAID issue though - 4k sectors is here to stay and I am sure the other manufacturers will be releasing 4k sector drives very soon. Hopefully we will get normal ones though that don't report 512k sectors instead of 4k. Maybe have jumper for that for windows xp users.
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jamieburchell

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2010, 02:59:46 PM »

They want you to buy the enterprise drives for RAID instead of desktop drives...They specifically mention the proper TLER setting and AFAIK give a MTBF rating that they don't do for desktop drives. This is also true for Seagate.

I thought the 4K sector drives already had jumpers for Windows XP.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 03:02:01 PM by jamieburchell »
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If your little 323 is not working right,
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Take a deep breath and wipe away the sweat,
Login as web admin and try a factory reset!

scaramanga

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2010, 04:31:25 PM »

Before I bought the HDDs I looked into this TLER thing. Since I eventually decided to use standard mode, TLER became a non-issue. However, I came across this:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-features/31202-should-you-use-tler-drives-in-your-raid-nas
The relevant part from this article is:
Quote
The responses I received from Synology, QNAP, NETGEAR and Buffalo all indicated that their NAS RAID controllers don't depend on or even listen to TLER, CCTL, ERC or any other similar error recovery signal from their drives. Instead, their software RAID controllers have their own criteria for drive timeouts, retries and when a drive is finally marked bad.

These software RAID controllers are generally more patient and wait significantly longer for drive response and execute more retries before finally giving up and marking a drive dead. While this may degrade performance slightly when dealing with drives with bad blocks, it's intended to reduce the occurrances of drives dropping out of RAID volumes and the subsequent long, risky rebuilds.

Too bad they didn't get word from D-Link about this. I was too lazy to read through the code and find out for myself. If this convinces you or not - that's up to you.

p.s.: Also note that the TLER feature exists/doesn't-exist in other vendor's HDDs as well. Different vendors use different names for it.

An informed official response to this article from D-Link will be appreciated, I think.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 04:36:54 PM by scaramanga »
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DNS-323 HW Rev. C1 FW 1.08 fun_plug 0.5
2 x Western Digital WD10EARS-00Y5B1 in Standard mode
(LLC changed to 5 minutes. Partitions aligned to 4K boundary)

tentimes

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2010, 02:25:54 PM »

If that's the case (and I don't know much about raid) then since we now have a solution for the 4k sector issue then I don't see why there isn't an easy firmware update for it. Certainly the method I posted for formatting the 4k sectors on boundaries properly is extremely easy to put into the firmware - it a matter of changing 3 lines tops (Using Fdisk -H 224 -S 56 to partition instead of whatever other Fdisk command they have insures it's on 4k boundaries).

The more I look into this and understand it, the more I come to the opinion that Dlink have a really poor firmware development lab. For the past 2 years on the DIR-655 we have had one firmware debacle after another. I have a suspicion that they outsource firmware development and don't understand their own firmware. I mean, I didn't have a clue how the thing worked apart from it was a box with 2 drives in it and some flashing blue lights, and within 8 hours I was able to update my machine to get over the 4k sector problem.

Just looking through some of the code, if people like Wilson Chan have moved on then I suppose it wouldn't be the easiest job in the world to go back in and edit it ;) But I suspect with even my limited knowledge that after updating fdisk bin and commands it probably a matter of a kernel update? I dunno.

Time we had some more info from Dlink though!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 03:25:34 PM by tentimes »
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scaramanga

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2010, 01:43:39 AM »

It's been almost two weeks now, and still no official response from D-Link regarding what I wrote/quoted a couple of replies above.
The sticky welcome thread says:
Quote
This forum is designed to allow the public and the Technical Services department of D-Link to openly share ideas and quick fix tips. Please keep posts concise and on topic.
So D-Link, please share your thoughts with us on this matter.
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DNS-323 HW Rev. C1 FW 1.08 fun_plug 0.5
2 x Western Digital WD10EARS-00Y5B1 in Standard mode
(LLC changed to 5 minutes. Partitions aligned to 4K boundary)

papasmurph

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2010, 01:41:55 AM »

I use WD20EADS with 1.09 firmware. I haven't set the drives for XP mode.

So far the only issues I have noted are (which might be generic to the DNS-323 rather than the drives):
* Copying many small files take forever. There seems to be extensive latency between files. Due to Samba?
* Sometimes there's something "lost in the translation" so that Windows 7 thinks it can't copy a large file. I have to restart the copy, and if the file is large enough (like 10 GB) it sometimes never will copy.

Cheers
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gunrunnerjohn

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2010, 05:34:12 AM »

Neither of those issues happen with either my DNS-321 or DNS-323 for small files or large files.  I have 40gb backup image files and tons of little files, no issues at all.
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Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Remember: Data you don't have two copies of is data you don't care about!
PS: RAID of any level is NOT a second copy.

jamieburchell

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2010, 11:50:42 AM »

Sometimes there's something "lost in the translation" so that Windows 7 thinks it can't copy a large file. I have to restart the copy, and if the file is large enough (like 10 GB) it sometimes never will copy.

Cheers


Are you connecting wirelessly? That happens to me when copying large files over wireless. The connection kind of dies at random. No fault of the 323.
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If your little 323 is not working right,
You've racked your brains and been up all night
Take a deep breath and wipe away the sweat,
Login as web admin and try a factory reset!

irotjaf

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2010, 10:59:35 PM »

Hi Jamie,

Is it normal that the wifi connection dies? I stream movies to my laptop and occasionally VLC stop reading the file with an error message and freezes. Can this be due to what you say?

I am planning to buy a TV with wifi remote capability (or a device to read media in wireless from the NAS) but if the wifi connection is going to die at random... I should rethink my plans.

Thank you.
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wilburyan

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2010, 08:55:14 AM »

I use WD20EADS with 1.09 firmware. I haven't set the drives for XP mode.

So far the only issues I have noted are (which might be generic to the DNS-323 rather than the drives):
* Copying many small files take forever. There seems to be extensive latency between files. Due to Samba?
* Sometimes there's something "lost in the translation" so that Windows 7 thinks it can't copy a large file. I have to restart the copy, and if the file is large enough (like 10 GB) it sometimes never will copy.

Cheers


EADS drives are not 4k... so your comment has nothing to do with this thread.
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jamieburchell

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2010, 02:22:50 PM »

Hi Jamie,

Is it normal that the wifi connection dies? I stream movies to my laptop and occasionally VLC stop reading the file with an error message and freezes. Can this be due to what you say?

I am planning to buy a TV with wifi remote capability (or a device to read media in wireless from the NAS) but if the wifi connection is going to die at random... I should rethink my plans.

Thank you.

I have no idea what causes it, but if I'm copying large files around on my laptops it sometimes happens. I usually get a "location is unavailable" or "semaphore timeout has expired" - whatever that means. It seems to disrupt the wireless connection for several seconds before I try again. Interestingly, it never happens when streaming 4-8GB ISO files through my Buffalo Nfiniti Wireless N Ethernet converter on the same network, same speed and SMB protocol. Go figure!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 02:30:12 PM by jamieburchell »
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If your little 323 is not working right,
You've racked your brains and been up all night
Take a deep breath and wipe away the sweat,
Login as web admin and try a factory reset!

dosborne

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2010, 06:21:41 PM »

In any case, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
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3 x DNS-323 with 2 x 2TB WD Drives each for a total of 12 TB Storage and Backup. Running DLink Firmware v1.08 and Fonz Fun Plug (FFP) v0.5 for improved software support.

lobotiger

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2010, 08:45:14 AM »

Hey everyone.  I'm thinking of swapping my 2TB Western Digital Green (EADS) drive with 2x1TB Western Digital Blue drives (WD10EALS) and run them in RAID0.  I haven't seen any evidence of them working or not working in this setup but thought I'd check in here first.  My main beef is that the Green drive just seems a little too sluggish when transferring files back and forth at least compared to when I have a pair of 500GB Seagate drives in there in RAID1.  If the Blue drives work, do you think I'll see any kind of performance improvement?

Thanks.

LoboTiger
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