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Author Topic: issues with 850L  (Read 36372 times)

FerrousTriceratops

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issues with 850L
« on: October 23, 2013, 11:42:37 AM »

I feel i'm reasonably technically-minded, but this router's been a bit of a headache.
i purchased this dir-850L on 10/8 from newegg, and received it on the 16th. the 850L is replacing an older linksys wrt54g2. our wlan has mixed 11b/g/n devices, running windows 7 and xp.
1.07 firmware's been installed on the 850L, Hardware version is A1


let me start with setup. for some reason, it seems that the dir-850L either cant, or wont, get proper DHCP info from our comcast cable modem and will not be able to establish a connection to the internet (but it will if daisy-chained through the linksys wrt54g2).
i was able to puzzle out a solution, under Manual Connection Setup, i apparently MUST enter a dns server (either comcast's or google's) AND click the "clone your PC's mac address" button. manually entering the 850L's mac address (or that of the wrt54g2) will not work.
if this is documented anywhere, i wasnt able to find it.
once that's done, the router's able to get an IP address and establish a connection to the internet though the cable modem.

If you could shed some light on that issue, why that happens, or what i'm doing wrong, i would very much like to know.

========================

second issue, low WLAN performance.
for this: Laptop will refer to a laptop running WinXP Home with an ASUS USB-N13 wireless adapter (11n) and PC running Win7 Home with a TP-Link PCI card (11g). both computers are in the same room. the dir-850L is not 30ft away, on the other side of a wall, and is configured as: 2.4ghz band in mixed b/g/n mode, auto channel scan enabled, best (auto) transmission rate, with 20/40mhz auto channel width. security is WPA-personal, WPA2-only with AES cipher. 5ghz band is disabled. all other settings should be in their default state.

signal strength, as reported by inSSIDer, is good on both laptop and PC, but transferring files between the two is very sluggish. 800KB/sec-1MB/sec at best, but more commonly around the 200-400KB/sec range or less. and unlike with the wrt54g2, transferring files simultaneously incurs a much higher latency when playing online games.
in the same vein, pinging around the WLAN, such as from PC to laptop or from PC to the router, result in wildly variable ping times, all several hundreds of milliseconds, and even pings over a full second, and that's assuming the ping requests dont simply time out, which they frequently do.
Quote
Ping statistics for 192.168.0.101:
    Packets: Sent = 151, Received = 151, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 1806ms, Average = 64ms

Pinging 192.168.0.101 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.100: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.0.100: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.0.100: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.0.100: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.0.100: Destination host unreachable.
etc..
http://prntscr.com/1z8guf
even with a 50ft length of cat-6 between PC and the router instead of the WLAN, ping times will still be inconsistent and much higher than i expect them to be.

i would very much like to see better performance out of this router, if you can provide assistant in that regard.

========================

third issue, web configuration idle log-out
simply put, getting logged out after about a minute is far too short an interval, and annoying when trying to read up on a setting, or say, type up a email to d-link support.
sucks, but looking around on the forums apparently its not possible to change it.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 11:44:26 AM by FerrousTriceratops »
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FurryNutz

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2013, 11:49:05 AM »

Link>Welcome!

  • What region are you located?

What FW version did the router come with?

Internet Service Provider and Modem Configurations
  • What ISP Modem Mfr. and model # do you have?
  • What ISP Modem service link speeds UP and Down do you have?
  • Check ISP MTU requirements, Cable is usually 1500, DSL is around 1492 down to 1472. Call the ISP and ask. Link>Checking MTU Values
  • For DSL/PPPoE connections on the router, ensure that "Always ON" option is enabled.

Router and Wired Configurations
Some things to try: - Log into the routers web page at 192.168.0.1. Use IE, Opera or FF to manage the router.
  • Turn off ALL QoS or Disable Traffic Shaping (DIR only) GameFuel (DGL only and if ON.) options, Advanced/QoS or Gamefuel.
  • Turn off Advanced DNS Services if you have this option under Setup/Internet/Manual or under Setup/PARENTAL CONTROL/Set to>None: Static IP or Obtain Automatically From ISP.
  • Enable Use Unicasting (compatibility for some ISP DHCP Servers) under Setup/Internet/Manual.
  • Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking. Link>Finding Faster DNS Addresses using Name Bench
  • Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking. This ensures each devices gets its own IP address when turned on and connected, eliminates IP address conflicts and helps in troubleshooting.
  • Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
  • If IPv6 is an option on the router, select Local Connection Only or Disable IPv6 options under Setup/IPv6.
  • Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall. Enable or Disable SPI to test.
  • Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming under Advanced/Networking. Disable uPnP for testing Port Forwarding rules. Enable IPv6 Multi-cast Streaming for routers that have a Media Server option. Disable IPv6 Multi-cast Streaming if IPv6 or Media Server is not being used.
  • Turn off WISH, and WPS under Advanced.
  • WAN Port Speed set to Auto or specific speed? Some newer ISP modems support 1000Mb so manually setting to Gb speeds can be supported by the router. Advanced/Advanced Networking/WAN Port Speed
  • Set current Time Zone, Date and Time. Use an NTP Server feature. Tools/Time.
  • Check cable between Modem and Router, swap out to be sure. Link> Cat6 is recommended.

Wireless Configurations
Links>Wireless Installation Considerations and Managing Signal Congestion
  • Ensure the default (dlink) SSID name is changed. Can be anything and not something thats already in use by any neighboring WiFi routers. Under Setup/Wireless/Manual.
  • What wireless modes are you using?
  • 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz routers: Try single mode G or N or mixed G and N on 2.4Ghz and single mode N on 5Ghz?
  • Channel Width set for Auto 20/40Mhz or try 20Mhz only.
  • Try setting a manual Channel to a open or unused channel. 1, 6 or 11. 11 for single mode N if the channel is clear.
  • What security mode are you using? Preferred security is WPA-Personal. WPA2/AES Only. Some WiFi adapters don't support AES, so you might want to try TPIK only or Auto TPIK and AES.
  • What wireless devices do you have connected?
  • ]Any cordless house phones?
  • Any other WiFi routers in the area? Link> Use InSSIDer to find out. How many?
  • If you have any of these options, Try turning OFF or ON Short GI, WLAN Partition, HT 20/40 Co-exhistance and Extra Wireless Protection if you have it. Recommended settings are default. Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.
  • Enable WMM Enable Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.
  • Try setting Medium or Low power output settings and test again Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.

3rd Party Security Software Configurations
  • Turn off all anti virus and firewall programs on PC while testing. 3rd party firewalls are not generally needed when using routers as they are effective on blocking malicious inbound traffic.
  • Turn off all devices accept for one wired PC while testing.


Router Placement
Forum User - "Well I feel really dumb. After moving the router away from other electronic devices my speeds are back to normal. Just a heads up for anyone experiencing slow speeds, you might want to move it away from other electronics and see if that helps."
6" minimum safe distance between devices.

Web Browser Configurations
What browser are you using?
Try Opera or FF? If IE 8 or 9, set compatibility mode and test again.
Try turning off these features in Chrome:
Top right corner, little bars for options > Settings > Settings (on left) > Show advanced settings.
Uncheck these:
Use a web service to help resolve navigation errors
Use a prediction service to help complete searches and URLs typed in the address bar
Predict network actions to improve page load performance
Enable phishing and malware protection
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FerrousTriceratops

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2013, 04:37:34 PM »

What region are you located?
USA

What FW version did the router come with?
1.03 iirc, installed 1.07 as an attempt to sort out the 'cant find internet' thing

What ISP Modem Mfr. and model # do you have?
Scientific Atlanta DPC2100R2 from comcast. stickers date it to 2009.
What ISP Modem service link speeds UP and Down do you have?
DL ~2.5-3MB/s 15-20mbps, and im only seeing about half that with this router. UL ~600KB/s 5mpbs right now
Check ISP MTU requirements
MTU was set at 1500 (wrt54g2 was set to auto), lowered it to 1472 with no noticable difference

All QoS settings are off, filtering likewise

Enable Use Unicasting (compatibility for some ISP DHCP Servers) under Setup/Internet/Manual.
Unicasting enabled (tried that during initial setup, didnt seem to help any)
Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking. router is set with comcast's dns servers
DNS relay already enabled
Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router.
enabled and set for all computers on the wlan
Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
all are.

IPv6 is local connection only
Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall. Enable or Disable SPI to test.
Endpoint Independant doesnt seem to be an option, SPI on or off doesnt appear to make a noticable difference
UPnP is already enabled, IPv4/6 mulicast streams are off
Turn off WISH, and WPS under Advanced.
WPS is already off
WAN Port Speed set to Auto or specific speed?
Auto
Set current Time Zone, Date and Time.
time is set and current, syncs with d-link's ntp server. also tried manually setting time during initial setup(since at the time, it couldnt connect to the internet).

Check cable between Modem and Router, swap out to be sure.
have tried with the various pieces of cat5e i have lying around, a length of cat6 and the 3ft piece of cat5e that came with the router.
 
Wireless Configurations
Ensure the default (dlink) SSID name is changed.
one of the first things i did, next to changing the default password on it.
  • What wireless modes are you using?

2.4ghz, b/g/n mixed mode (have devices using all three of those speeds on the network). 5ghz is off.
auto channel scan is on, and router's currently on channel 2. turning channel scan off and using 1 or 6 doesnt produce any noticeable improvement in wlan speed or ping time. switching to G/N-only actually kicked the PC off (has a tp-link wireless G card)
channel width is Auto 20/40mhz.
security is wpa-personal wpa2-only with aes cipher. removing the security and having an open AP makes no difference in speed.
did mention most of that in OP


What wireless devices do you have connected?
1 laptop on wifi-B, PC with G, and 2 laptops with N

Any cordless house phones?
nope
Any other WiFi routers in the area?
2 on chan.1,  2 more on 6, and 4 on 11 (again, router's automatically selecting chan.2, courtesy of auto channel scan)
WLAN Partition, (off, default)
HT 20/40 Co-exhistance (enabled, default)
WMM Enable(enabled, default)
low/medium transmit power does not improve anything noticeably. if anything, degrades file transfer speeds around the wlan.



Router Placement
same location as the wrt54g2. and by same location i mean in a wrt54g2-shaped dust shadow

Web Browser Configurations
firefox primarily, also chrome on the side. latest versions of both.
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thunter

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2013, 07:58:37 PM »

Hey FerrousTriceratops,

I too recently bought the same model router from Newegg (2 months ago now) and had the exact same problem as you describe... to the letter.  I also have comcast internet, and experience the same initial connection issue.  I never stumbled onto the DNS changing to get connected, I just kept rebooting my comcast modem over and over and eventually it connected.  But, it's amazing how similar our problems are.

I also had terrible wireless performance - I even purchased a new D-link 433Mb wireless usb adapter (DWA-171) thinking it might be my old laptop NIC causing issues.  Same deal with with the new NIC as the old - like you - about 10 feet away (no wall) 100% signal, connected at 433Mb/sec, and took 15 minutes to copy a 750MB CD iso from a dlink NAS.  Pitiful.  Hook my laptop up wired at 100Mb?  Pffffff..  copy took 6 mins.

I ended up calling D-link support and getting more frustrated.  I spent a total of 1.5 hours on the phone with lady who barely spoke engrish - and we went through all sorts of different configs.  Eventually she gave up and said it must be defective.  However she kept asking me how I received the 1.09 firmware when 1.07 was the latest.  I tried 3 times explaining on their product downloads section 1.09 is there - but, when I click update firmware from the device itself.. 1.07 is the latest.

Sigh.. Newegg offered a replacement model and it cost me the shipping back to them.  After about 2 week without the router a new one came from newegg.. and it has worked almost flawlessly.  I had the initial problem of getting a DHCP address from comcast, but after that hurdle?  It's been solid and the performance has been what I expect.  I can only guess Newegg received a bad batch.. and we were a couple of 'lucky customers'.

Hope my experience helps you in making a decision - but, I would pursue the return route if possible.  I and support tried every firmware and just about every tweak known to the unit - and performance was just horrible.

Best of luck to you -
Troy
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FurryNutz

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2013, 07:10:53 AM »


What region are you located?
USA

What FW version did the router come with?
1.03 iirc, installed 1.07 as an attempt to sort out the 'cant find internet' thing
I would install v1.09 and see if this resolves anything. If you do, please follow this:FW Update Process

What ISP Modem Mfr. and model # do you have?
Scientific Atlanta DPC2100R2 from comcast. stickers date it to 2009.
This is an older DOCSIS 2.0 modem, it should work well however doesn't hurt to ask your ISP for a newer model DOCSIS 3.0 modem. I recommend a Motorola SB 6 series stand alone modem. Great modems.

What ISP Modem service link speeds UP and Down do you have?
DL ~2.5-3MB/s 15-20mbps, and im only seeing about half that with this router. UL ~600KB/s 5mpbs right now
Check ISP MTU requirements
MTU was set at 1500 (wrt54g2 was set to auto), lowered it to 1472 with no noticable difference
I recommend that you have your ISP check the cabling going to the ISP modem, check signal levels going to the ISP modem. Check for t.v. line splitters and remove them as they can introduce noise on the line and lower the signal going to the ISP modem. Connecting to the ISP modem could result in a false positive as the signal to the modem could be just enough to that point then adding on a router, could see problems. The router operation is dependent upon getting good data flow from the ISP modem and the modem is dependent upon getting good signal from the ISP Service.

All QoS settings are off, filtering likewise

Enable Use Unicasting (compatibility for some ISP DHCP Servers) under Setup/Internet/Manual.
Unicasting enabled (tried that during initial setup, didnt seem to help any)
Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking. router is set with comcast's dns servers
DNS relay already enabled
Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router.
enabled and set for all computers on the wlan
Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
all are.

IPv6 is local connection only
Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall. Enable or Disable SPI to test.
Endpoint Independant doesnt seem to be an option, SPI on or off doesnt appear to make a noticable difference
UPnP is already enabled, IPv4/6 mulicast streams are off
Turn off WISH, and WPS under Advanced.
WPS is already off
WAN Port Speed set to Auto or specific speed?
Auto
Set current Time Zone, Date and Time.
time is set and current, syncs with d-link's ntp server. also tried manually setting time during initial setup(since at the time, it couldnt connect to the internet).

Check cable between Modem and Router, swap out to be sure.
have tried with the various pieces of cat5e i have lying around, a length of cat6 and the 3ft piece of cat5e that came with the router.
 
Wireless Configurations
Ensure the default (dlink) SSID name is changed.
one of the first things i did, next to changing the default password on it.
  • What wireless modes are you using?

2.4ghz, b/g/n mixed mode (have devices using all three of those speeds on the network). 5ghz is off.
auto channel scan is on, and router's currently on channel 2. turning channel scan off and using 1 or 6 doesnt produce any noticeable improvement in wlan speed or ping time. switching to G/N-only actually kicked the PC off (has a tp-link wireless G card)
channel width is Auto 20/40mhz.
security is wpa-personal wpa2-only with aes cipher. removing the security and having an open AP makes no difference in speed.
did mention most of that in OP


What wireless devices do you have connected?
1 laptop on wifi-B, PC with G, and 2 laptops with N

Any cordless house phones?
nope
Any other WiFi routers in the area?
2 on chan.1,  2 more on 6, and 4 on 11 (again, router's automatically selecting chan.2, courtesy of auto channel scan)
WLAN Partition, (off, default)
HT 20/40 Co-exhistance (enabled, default)
WMM Enable(enabled, default)
low/medium transmit power does not improve anything noticeably. if anything, degrades file transfer speeds around the wlan.



Router Placement
same location as the wrt54g2. and by same location i mean in a wrt54g2-shaped dust shadow

Web Browser Configurations
firefox primarily, also chrome on the side. latest versions of both.


If your confident that your ISP modem and services are good and that the FW update is good and after this, the router isn't working well, I would get a replacement ASAP or phone contact D-Link support and ask for an RMA. Let us know how it goes. Here to help out.
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FerrousTriceratops

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2013, 06:27:29 PM »

thanks for the info thunter.

cable modem might be an older model, sure, but it's been working just fine. there are tv splitters on the line, but they pre-date having the 850L, so im doubtful they're an issue (the wrt54g2 sure didnt mind them)
ill give the 1.09fw a shot later tonite, then talk to newegg if theres no improvement.
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FurryNutz

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2013, 06:31:15 PM »

Keep us posted.
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FerrousTriceratops

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2013, 08:18:55 PM »

installed the 1.09 firmware, ran some file transfer tests with the two closest computers at hand, an 11N laptop and the 11G pc.

Used LAN Speed Test (Lite), with a 500mb file size, initially sending from the PC.

192.168.0.100   11g   48mbps (speed as reported the router's Status > Wireless page[inconsistent speeds there too...])
192.168.0.101   11n   78mbs
 Write Time = 626.3906957 Seconds
 Write Speed = 6.3857920 Mbps
 Read Time = 384.7182030 Seconds
 Read Speed = 10.3972240 Mbps
 
and 500mb on the wrt54g2 11G speeds
  Write Time = 349.6835022 Seconds
 Write Speed = 11.4389120 Mbps
 Read Time = 317.6488118 Seconds
 Read Speed = 12.5925200 Mbps

and just for comparison direct gigabit connection without having the router involved. same 500mb.
 Write Time = 37.1522224 Seconds
 Write Speed = 107.6651600 Mbps
 Read Time = 10.1204863 Seconds
 Read Speed = 395.2379280 Mbps

direct 100mbit connection (~12yo linksys 10/100 pci card, lol.)
 Write Time = 45.9086230 Seconds
 Write Speed = 87.1296000 Mbps
 Read Time = 44.6354143 Seconds
 Read Speed = 89.6149440 Mbps

downloading from steam, (3gb worth of saints row 3 over 30 minutes), still a 1.7MB/sec average with a peak of 2.15MB/s, little on the slow side, but not unreasonable.

and apparently i cant see the router's 5ghz band on  my 11n adapters, even with the 5ghz band set to N-only mode rather than mixed AC/N. hardly a big issues at this point comparatively, but worth mentioning
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 09:42:05 AM by FerrousTriceratops »
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FurryNutz

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2013, 10:11:32 AM »

So are you good to go then.

You'll need to find out what your client side HW support as far as 5Ghz and modes. Refer to the Mfr for support info. Ensure any WiFi adapter drivers if used are up to date.

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FerrousTriceratops

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 06:47:19 PM »

unless im misunderstanding something really fundamental (quite possible),
the 850L (billed as up to 300mbps at N speeds) still appears to be slower (but not by much) than the wrt54g2 (54mbs @ G), and its WLAN file transfer speeds are (and here's where im possibly misunderstanding something) below average for G speed (~22mpbs) and slower than my internet connection as well (see previous, 1.7MB/s--14mbps), if not outright limiting my internet connection (ive found ive had to lower my OBS streaming bitrate by about half, down to ~700KB/s, and as mentioned, my downloads are slower than what im expecting as well)

now, granted it could be that the assorted hardware here (which is on the older side of things) is slowing down transfer speeds, or interference from another WAP nearby (which the 850L should be channel hopping to avoid), or i've ineptly misconfigured something (but again as per OP, didnt exactly work well out of the box), but i feel like i should reasonably be seeing same or better performance relative to the old wrt54g2.
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FurryNutz

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2013, 10:37:32 AM »

I recommend loading v1.09.
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=55592.0

Please follow the FW update process and don't load any saved configurations from file...
Test with HT20/40Mhz Co-existence disabled and enabled on single mode N, WPA2/AES only, Auto 20/40Mhz. Ensure the channel used is clear and not being used by other neighboring WiFi to be sure.

Let us know your results...
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FerrousTriceratops

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Re: issues with 850L
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 06:02:56 PM »

installed 1.09 FW (see post #7)

router was set to wpa2/aes-only, auto 20/40mhz. most clear channel is either 2 (as the router was auto-selecting) or 8-9.

i spent about an hour with comcast support, see if they might have any bright ideas. no dice on that front, but i did learn that the low WLAN speeds is most likely just that, low WLAN speed. eg, if i connect to the router via ethernet, i can get 20-24mbps downstream from the 25mbps service from comcast (upstream is still 5mpbs regardless), but connecting at wireless b, g or n and the best i get is 13-15 down, and more often just 9-10mbps.

was never able to get the 850L to get DHCP info from the cable modem at default settings, no matter the firmware (might be the modem's issue, it wouldnt DHCP a laptop connected directly to it either, something comcast wanted me to try for diagnostics.)

never got 11n to work at 5ghz either, so wasnt able to check thoughput there

(excuse me for a bit of a rant for a moment)
now, i understand that with overhead, cross-channel overlap and interference, and assorted other real-world conditions, im not going to see the full "advertised" speed, but its an 80% drop off G specification, and an even smaller fraction of N. seems to me like im paying $70 for no increase in performance.
i dunno if i had unrealistic expectations, but i did sort of expect something...more.
[/rant]

the intent was to get a new N or AC router suitable for wireless media streaming, specifically the google chromecast unit, for a tv about 15-18m away from the router, plus gaming. i was looking for something in a dual-band flavor, to keep the pc/laptops separate from the tv if possible. that the 850L was reasonably priced, had a guest mode, gigabit lan, and a usb port for a harddrive or something was just extra perks.

ultimately though, and i dont know if its my own lack of knowledge here, or the wireless adapters in the computers or just what, but this has turned out to be more of a headache than i feel it's worth so i decided to take thunter's advice above, and return the router to newegg.

for the record this is a big reason why i hate wireless networking, but i just want to say thanks for the assistance.
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FurryNutz

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Re: issues with 850L (NOT RESOLVED)
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2013, 07:09:48 AM »

I'll presume there could be an issue between the router and your adapters.

Good Luck in your endeavors.
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