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Author Topic: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band  (Read 31322 times)

tuweng

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Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« on: May 25, 2012, 10:40:23 PM »

I'm able to connect to the 5GHZ band but not in 2.4GHZ, help.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 08:23:09 AM »

Welcome!
What Hardware version is your router? Look at sticker under router.
What Firmware version is currently loaded? Found on routers web page under status.
What region are you located?

What ISP Service do you have? Cable or DSL?
What ISP Modem do you have? Stand Alone or built in router?
What ISP Modem make and model do you have?
If this modem has a built in router, it's best to bridge the modem. Having 2 routers on the same line can cause connection problems.
To tell if the modem is bridged or not, look at the routers web page, Status/Device Info/Wan Section, if there is a 192.168.0.# address in the WAN IP address field, then the modem is not bridged.
If the modem can't be bridged then see if the modem has a DMZ option and input the IP address the router gets from the modem and put that into the modems DMZ.

Some things to try:
Turn off ALL QoS or Disable Traffic Shaping (DIR only) GameFuel (DGL only and if ON.) options. Advanced/QoS or Gamefuel.
Turn off Advanced DNS Services if you have this option under Setup/Internet/Manual.
Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking.
Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking
Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall.
Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming under Advanced/Networking.


Wireless Installation Considerations
Ensure WiFi adapter drivers are up to date.
What wireless modes are you using? Under Setup/Wireless/Manual.
Try single mode G or mixed G and N on 2.4Ghz and single mode N on 5Ghz?
Channel Width set for Auto 20/40Mhz or try 20Mhz only.
What security mode are you using? Preferred security is WPA-Personal. WPA2/AES Only. Some WiFi adapters don't support AES, so you might want to try TPIK only or Auto.
What wireless devices do you have connected?
Any cordless house phones?
Any other WiFi routers in the area? Use InSSIDer to find out.
Turn off Short GI, WLAN Partition and Extra Wireless Protection if you have it. Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.


Turn off all anti virus and firewall programs on PC while testing. 3rd party firewalls are not generally needed when using routers as they are effective on blocking malicious inbound traffic.
Turn off all devices accept for one wired PC while testing.

Check cable between Modem and Router, swap out to be sure. Cat6 is recommended.
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tuweng

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2012, 01:11:24 PM »

It's working now.  I tried some of the settings you had listed and got it working, thanks!!
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FurryNutz

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band (RESOLVED)
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2012, 02:18:32 PM »

Enjoy.
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nolan

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 06:36:24 AM »

I'm able to connect to the 5GHZ band but not in 2.4GHZ, help.

I lose 2.4GHz several times a week.  I'm a CWNA & CWNP (13 years experience in WLAN from RangeLAN2, Home RF up to latest 802.11 standards, etc.).  I've tried a variety of settings (802.11n only, fixed channel, auto scan, WPA2 only, etc. etc.) and at least weekly 2.4 GHz disappears.  Status on the router indicates it's enabled but it is not broadcasting (can't see it with any device on my network).  When I check the logs, they are cleared out after this occurs.  Like you said, 5 GHz works fine the problem is my wife (& Wii) are the only 2.4GHz clients left in the house and I hear about it every time it goes down.  I can fix it by changing any setting on the 2.4 radio, then saving / reboot, then it starts broadcasting.  However, within a day it goes away again.  I have not been impressed with this unit at all.

I just called tech support and they are going to RMA my DIR-827.  Ironically, when I first bought it I had a case that was escalated to the Engineering department and we found a bug that required the creation of firmware 1.2.  In that case, when I enabled Guest on 2.4, I could no longer reach network devices on 5 GHz.  It was confirmed to be a bug and they corrected in code.  It had been working fine until a month or 2 ago and then this started up.

If your issue persists, I'd call in a ticket before the warranty expires. 

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FurryNutz

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 06:47:45 AM »

Any cordless house phones?
Any other WiFi routers in the area? Use InSSIDer to find out. These can cause connection issues specially in a WiFi crowded area. If it's not crowded then there could be an issue with the HW.

Hope the RMA will also resolve your issue as well. Keep us posted on it's status.

I lose 2.4GHz several times a week.  I'm a CWNA & CWNP (13 years experience in WLAN from RangeLAN2, Home RF up to latest 802.11 standards, etc.).  I've tried a variety of settings (802.11n only, fixed channel, auto scan, WPA2 only, etc. etc.) and at least weekly 2.4 GHz disappears.  Status on the router indicates it's enabled but it is not broadcasting (can't see it with any device on my network).  When I check the logs, they are cleared out after this occurs.  Like you said, 5 GHz works fine the problem is my wife (& Wii) are the only 2.4GHz clients left in the house and I hear about it every time it goes down.  I can fix it by changing any setting on the 2.4 radio, then saving / reboot, then it starts broadcasting.  However, within a day it goes away again.  I have not been impressed with this unit at all.

I just called tech support and they are going to RMA my DIR-827.  Ironically, when I first bought it I had a case that was escalated to the Engineering department and we found a bug that required the creation of firmware 1.2.  In that case, when I enabled Guest on 2.4, I could no longer reach network devices on 5 GHz.  It was confirmed to be a bug and they corrected in code.  It had been working fine until a month or 2 ago and then this started up.

If your issue persists, I'd call in a ticket before the warranty expires. 


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Patrick533

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 08:35:49 AM »

I second the use of INSSIDER.

I was experiencing a major slow down on 2.4 WiFi when testing the DIR-827. When I went to the other side of the house I found a neighbors new WiFi router residing on the channel I was on, I had never seen this router before in site surveys(I use a external radio to my laptop for surveys).

Changing the channel on the DIR-827 doubled my throughput and the erratic behavior disappeared on 2.4 anywhere from sitting next to the DIR-827 to 50-Ft away. I could not even detect the neighbors new router outside my home on my client until I moved across the house. Considering I was having problems from 5-ft to 50-FT from the DIR-827 router, this tells me the DIR-827 may have a better 2.4 radio and a more sensitive receive and was picking up interference from the neighbors new router, across the street and a couple of houses down.

But lets face it, the DIR-827 working properly considered, the 2.4 band blows! Anytime I have to share a frequency with a 1000-watt microwave oven and cordless phones, that is a poor frequency choice for datacom....... Back to the 46/49Mhz days!

I say we outlaw microwave ovens and make everyone use MRE heaters!  8)
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FurryNutz

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 10:21:16 AM »

I agree, would have been better if datacomm would have been place farther away from microwaves and cordless phones. What where they thinking.  >:(
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nolan

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 05:05:21 PM »

I used a Fluke Aircheck to identify all the neighbors.  Obviously 2.4GHz is pretty crowded, so I selected the least used channel.  I had it set to auto channel select but when we started having troubles I changed it to channel 1. 

I have two SSID's on 2.4GHz, one for my internal network and one for a guest network (for my kids friends iPads, phones, etc.).  When it goes down, I lose both SSID's.  The 2.4 GHz radio completely shuts off.  Sometimes it comes back on its own (i.e. while I'm away on business it can be down for several days, then come on by itself).  It rarely comes back from power cycling or rebooting.  I typically have to change channels or security settings on the radio, save, then reboot to get it to come back on.

I've read elsewhere in the forum about "Green" features and maybe it's "going to sleep" and not waking back up but I can't find any settings in the router for this.
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FurryNutz

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 07:13:11 AM »

If you say your area is pretty crowed on 2.4Ghz, I might presume that the router is going to exhibit problems dealing with the channels being used up.

One thing you can try is to lower the power output from High to Medium and see if this helps. Kind of like making a small broadcast foot print.

The only options regarding Green, is that there is a lower power setting for wired LAN connections I think under Advanced/Networking.

If you have any 5Ghz devices, I would test the router on 5Ghz and see how well it does. You may want to take a closer look at 5Ghz since your area is crowded on 2.4Ghz. There are USB and wired 5Ghz adapters for upgrading most devices.
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Patrick533

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2012, 09:33:58 AM »

I used a Fluke Aircheck to identify all the neighbors.  Obviously 2.4GHz is pretty crowded, so I selected the least used channel.  I had it set to auto channel select but when we started having troubles I changed it to channel 1. 

I have two SSID's on 2.4GHz, one for my internal network and one for a guest network (for my kids friends iPads, phones, etc.).  When it goes down, I lose both SSID's.  The 2.4 GHz radio completely shuts off.  Sometimes it comes back on its own (i.e. while I'm away on business it can be down for several days, then come on by itself).  It rarely comes back from power cycling or rebooting.  I typically have to change channels or security settings on the radio, save, then reboot to get it to come back on.

I've read elsewhere in the forum about "Green" features and maybe it's "going to sleep" and not waking back up but I can't find any settings in the router for this.

Because the DIR-827 is a FCC part 15 certified device, it should not crash the 2.4Ghz radio in an over crowded RF area, but now enter the real world where nothing is perfect comes in to play and Murphy was an optimist. I need to look up the specs for the radios used in the DIR-827, I think because it seems to have a higher sensitivity receiver, the noise on the band MAY be causing havoc with the radios. I will play with my DIR-827 this weekend, what I will do is put it on the same channel as my 1watt A/P and try connecting to it with my laptop and see if I can duplicate your problem. The outcome I would expect on an overcrowded band is slow throughput but no crashing, so if it is not a defective router I would suspect a firmware tweak is needed.

The problem with adopting a new device it will need some tweaks, but we need to identify it as a problem first. I have had excellent customer service experiences with D-Link, so I have no doubt they will fix it if we find it.

Furrys thought of turning down the power would not buy you anything unless the receiver sensitivity is also attenuated to reduce the noise being received, which I doubt. Then again, it could be the transmitter overheating with all of the packet re-sends taking place because of the noise on the band, so it might be worth a shot, I am sure the radios are thermally protected and they could very well be shutting off to protect themselves. The normal difference with RF at 75% power and 100% power is a lot of heat and only a marginally stronger signal. I have only read the specs for the 5Ghz radio so far and this router has a hot 5Ghz transmitter compared to most older stuff. Previously this was my only long term compliant with D-Link, the transmitters needed more power, which it looks like they have done.

Try 2 things and let us know how things work out.

1. If short GI is enabled, turn it off for testing.
2. Per Furrys idea, turn you power down to low, test it for an hour or so with a lot of data, like watching a movie or playing a game and if it don't reset go to Medium power and repeat. Please let us know the outcome, if Medium works fine, give High power a try.

My DIR-827 runs warm, but with all the extra processing, that is to be expected. After I try to duplicate your problem, I will be putting my family on the DIR-827 having completed my testing, then let the real trials begin when the kids start beating on it.

The days are warm here where I live, hitting 90F right now, so if it is a thermal problem, I should find it.

My only fear then if it is thermal, they will tweak down the max power setting so it will not overheat. :'(

Breaks over, time to go back to sweeping the floors and polishing the door knobs!

 




   

 


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Patrick533

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2012, 12:32:59 PM »

I lose 2.4GHz several times a week.  I'm a CWNA & CWNP (13 years experience in WLAN from RangeLAN2, Home RF up to latest 802.11 standards, etc.).  I've tried a variety of settings (802.11n only, fixed channel, auto scan, WPA2 only, etc. etc.) and at least weekly 2.4 GHz disappears.  Status on the router indicates it's enabled but it is not broadcasting (can't see it with any device on my network).  When I check the logs, they are cleared out after this occurs.  Like you said, 5 GHz works fine the problem is my wife (& Wii) are the only 2.4GHz clients left in the house and I hear about it every time it goes down.  I can fix it by changing any setting on the 2.4 radio, then saving / reboot, then it starts broadcasting.  However, within a day it goes away again.  I have not been impressed with this unit at all.

I just called tech support and they are going to RMA my DIR-827.  Ironically, when I first bought it I had a case that was escalated to the Engineering department and we found a bug that required the creation of firmware 1.2.  In that case, when I enabled Guest on 2.4, I could no longer reach network devices on 5 GHz.  It was confirmed to be a bug and they corrected in code.  It had been working fine until a month or 2 ago and then this started up.

If your issue persists, I'd call in a ticket before the warranty expires. 



Lunch time!

OK, after reading your posts back a ways, I see the problem is not happening all the time, just over a couple of days. If you have not sent the unit back yet, I would set the transmit power to medium and see if the radio crashing continues. I still would turn off short GI for testing also.

I was working on a design with a high power digital radio last year. When radio conditions were good, the data we sent would blast through in a few packets taking 30 seconds or less of handshaking to transmit all the data(with encryption!). When conditions were bad it would take several hundred retries overheating the radio. Playing around, if the path had no noise, low power was fine with the digital (QAM), when the path was bad, increasing the power up to 500 watts was the diminishing returns point, we went all the way to 3000 watts and still could not pass data any better then we could with 500 watts. But the radio gear was extremely hot to the touch and the amplifier was blowing very heated air. It was clear that your reach a point with digital signals that is there is too much noise, it will retry to send the data for quite some time before erroring out, or even with a 50% error rate with FEC, the radios take a beating.

You said you had a Fluke test set. Can you give us any idea where the noise floor at your location is (including other routers considered as noise)? With my DIR-827 I was experiencing slow downs of 50% with a signal that was -90Dbm. If your noise floor is running in the -70's or higher, by all means the router should take it, but the re-transmits and handshaking is going to be brutal with a major slowdown.

Just to clarify, a few router generations back, a router detecting a signal at -75Dbm was considered good, this also made it immune to other routers and noise sources near by. Today with routers approaching a sensitivity of -90Dbm and better, we are picking up neighbors we never even would have known about before. But we need this greater sensitivity to reach higher speeds, so it is a double edged sword. Then you have idiots like me with 1000Mw 2.4Ghz WiFi vs your 50Mw 2.4Ghz WiFi(I am just guessing at 50Mw, that is actually high for WiFi)

I only have a hypothesis, it could very well be a firmware bug that needs tweaking or a bad chip. But seeing my slowdown with a minor interference, if the interference is real bad, who knows.

Lunch is over, time to go clean the 20 bathrooms and drinking fountains!   :o






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Patrick533

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Re: Can't connect to 2.4GHZ Band
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2012, 04:57:51 PM »

OK, I turned on the WiFi in the DIR-827 and put it on the same channel as my primary access point.

I had close to a 15Dbm delta between my A/P and the DIR-827 signal strength, the A/P clearly being stronger.

After streaming 2 videos on 2 different laptops using the DIR-827 and an A/P simultaneously for 30 minutes, everything worked great. I did a speed test while I was streaming on the A/P only, the speed test on the DIR-827 went from a download of 87Mbps with no interference to 10Mbps while the video was streaming. But no lag like even I expected. That could be because even 1080P does not need 10Mbps throughput. 2-EA WiFi routers 10 feet apart, both on the same channel, both streaming to different clients, full stability.

With the self generated interference I was only getting 10% of my bandwidth through a device that had a signal that is stomping on it at 15Dbm greater then then the test stream. I am amazed.

I really need to read up on 802.11N because it plays nice together, even in the same room! The only thing I could do is add a 3rd router on the same channel, but I predict it would just be a slower throughput, we are looking for a crash and I can't duplicate it.

RMA seems the way to go!

I really like this router, might have to loose the 1000Mw AP and play nice with the neighbors. ???

   
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