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Author Topic: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!  (Read 148793 times)

turbox

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2010, 06:51:25 AM »

I noticed that NetGear has announced that they will support the 4K drives (it "will be ready when it is ready"), and that Drobo and Synology already supports them. It definitely sounds like it is a firmware update. While I don't expect a solution tomorrow, I would hope that D-Link is working on this problem now.
So had I...

In the first post D-link Multimedia states that the issue in standard mode is fixable. The real problem comes when using RAID.
Should we expect that issue (at least) for standard configuration fixed on upcoming firmware??

I just bought two 2TB EARS and didn't notice about this...


thank you..
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dannycalgary87

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2010, 08:23:02 AM »

Sorry for asking again but I don't think my question was answered.

If I use the WD20EARS drives in standard mode NOT Raid 1 mode will I have problems ???

I can see that plenty of people are having problems with Raiding these drives but I don't want to Raid them.

R.

If anyone can answer this that would be great.

I am also just running one WD20EARS drive in standard mode (obviously) and in the future will get another 2TB drive. If I jsut run 2 of them in standard mode (not concerned for mirroring in raid 1). Will I still see a decrease in performance.

Also is it an option to get a WD20EAD drive and use them together? Or does that cause even more problems?

Thanks
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MyDNS323

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2010, 09:51:16 AM »

If anyone can answer this that would be great.

I am also just running one WD20EARS drive in standard mode (obviously) and in the future will get another 2TB drive. If I jsut run 2 of them in standard mode (not concerned for mirroring in raid 1). Will I still see a decrease in performance.

Also is it an option to get a WD20EAD drive and use them together? Or does that cause even more problems?

Thanks

The EARS are 4k drives, so  I don't think RAID1 or standard disks makes any difference. In the end, the issue is that the DNS has trouble with 4k aligned drives.
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dannycalgary87

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2010, 10:00:03 AM »

Alright, well luckily I just bought the drive on saturday and can return it no problem. Gotta go online to get some of those EADS. Thanks for the response!
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yeargh

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2010, 05:30:19 AM »

Dear D-Link:

Read before you buy?  Are you kidding?

So can I print this thread and take it to my retailer indicating that *they* should have known about this when they sold me the NAS and drives together, so they should take back *four* unsealed WD10EARS drives?  I'm sure that will fly.

I do not rant online, but I will make a special exception this time. 
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dpolmann

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2010, 01:18:38 PM »

Anyone looking for WD20EADS and only seeing WD20EARS now widely available might read that the "retail box" version of that drive (sold as WD20000CSRTL) is the same device. My experience this week is otherwise. I have had DNS-323 for a couple of years with Seagate (7200.10) 320's inside. Time to expand; need more space. Have read terrible things about Seagates (7200.11 and .12) so don't want to buy those now. Could not find WD20EADS, which is what I wanted since it is on the "tested" list for DNS-323. Found the WD20000CSRTL at local big retailer; read online that this is same drive. Bought two at the store, and luckily opened the boxes while standing in front of service tech. Found one drive was EADS and the other drive was EARS. Explained my restriction to have only the EADS. Found one more box on the shelf and to my great surprise it was EADS inside the box; the technician conceded they were having quite a few complaints about the EARS drives and seemed to understand my concern for getting two of the EADS. So, look carefully before you buy...including opening the box!
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krausologer

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2010, 09:50:31 PM »

Anyone looking for WD20EADS and only seeing WD20EARS now widely available might read that the "retail box" version of that drive (sold as WD20000CSRTL) is the same device. My experience this week is otherwise. I have had DNS-323 for a couple of years with Seagate (7200.10) 320's inside. Time to expand; need more space. Have read terrible things about Seagates (7200.11 and .12) so don't want to buy those now. Could not find WD20EADS, which is what I wanted since it is on the "tested" list for DNS-323. Found the WD20000CSRTL at local big retailer; read online that this is same drive. Bought two at the store, and luckily opened the boxes while standing in front of service tech. Found one drive was EADS and the other drive was EARS. Explained my restriction to have only the EADS. Found one more box on the shelf and to my great surprise it was EADS inside the box; the technician conceded they were having quite a few complaints about the EARS drives and seemed to understand my concern for getting two of the EADS. So, look carefully before you buy...including opening the box!

@dpolmann - This exact situation happened to me. Bought two WD20000CSTRLs at Best Buy and ended up getting one WD20EADS and one WD20EARS drive. I'm going to try to exchange the EARS for an EADS and explain my situation similarly to what you described above. Since the actual HDD model number is only on the drive itself, hopefully the BB people will be sympathetic to my situation.
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DAFILKOV01

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2010, 02:13:26 AM »

Hello,

I have bought DNS-323 with 2x2TB EARS drives.
I plan to use it in standard form (no raid) with some folders synchronizing between HDD's.
So far, so good.
If anyone of you encounter problems please respond, I will do that also.
I am in no position of returning the drives :-/
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InBonobo

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2010, 05:58:52 PM »

@DAFILKOV01
Problems will start appearing later on, not right off the bat. By that time, you will have data you will need to move, making fixing it more difficult. I strongly suggest you format properly in the beginning, before reaching that point.

Timezlicer, dcmwai and myself wrote guides on formatting properly. Mine is here: http://www.consumedconsumer.org/2010/06/upgrading-my-dns-323-to-2-x-2-tb-ii_08.html
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DAFILKOV01

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2010, 03:40:50 AM »

Thank you InBonobo!!!
I have already done it with your recipe...
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HungryBUTTON

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2010, 10:44:56 PM »

4K drives are not your only problem.

All the new consumer WD drives (Green, Blue, Black) have TLER disabled

Time Limited Error Recovery is required to be enabled on RAID drives.

When data is written or read from a bad sector, the HDD will try to automatically recover this error but this can stall all commands to the disk for up to 2 minutes.

With most RAID's this will cause problems as the controllers (or software RAID) think the HDD is dead so it will drop it from the array.

When TLER is enabled it limits the HDD's error recovery attempt to 7 seconds, after this then the controller will mark the sector as bad, reallocate it then attempt to rebuild the data on the new sector.

Seagate and Samsung also have this problem.

Seagate = ERC
Samsung = CCTL
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jamieburchell

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2010, 12:36:21 AM »

How would one toggle this feature? Can Dlink confirm this is also a potential issue? Are you saying that enabling the time limit will avoid the issue? If a sector on a drive is bad and results in data loss presumably the RAID is then degraded? Or do the drives generally mark a sector as bad before data loss occurs?
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HungryBUTTON

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2010, 12:50:55 AM »

That is the problem with the new WD drives, you cannot turn on the feature. WD disabled this ability.

Samsung and Seagate you can enable this feature however it does not survive a power down of the drive. EG. It reverts back to disabled.

In a single disk / non raided scenario the disk will mark it as a bad sector and the data in that sector will be lost unless the HDD is able to recover it within 2 minutes.

In a RAID scenario with TLER enabled the sector will be marked as bad and it will be up to the RAID array / controller to recover the data not the hdd.

In a RAID scenario with TLER disabled the drive will hang and the RAID controller will drop the drive and the array will become degraded

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jamieburchell

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2010, 01:21:12 AM »

I read that smartctl may be able to read/write this value? I assume the manufacturers will be pushing enterprise level drives designed for RAID but what I don't know is how obvious it will be which drives have this disabled and which don't

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/146077

Looks like WD have RAID specific drives- this one actually mentions this error recovery setting in the spec. Same for the more expensive Seagate NS.2:

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=481e83de34b43110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 01:58:57 AM by jamieburchell »
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al bundy

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Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2010, 05:10:51 AM »

Well, I think D-Link does deserve some of the bad blood being spilled here.

I did check the website (not this forum) for compatible drives, and while these particular models are not listed as compatible there is no mention of them being severely incompatible.

Code: [Select]
***************************
*            DISCLAIMER               *
***************************

Drives that have been tested and approved by D-Link will be flagged with an asterisk (*). Drive models that do NOT have an asterisk (*) by them are currently being used by end users but have not been internally tested or verified by D-Link.

Note: If you are experiencing issues with your hard drives please verify that you are using the latest firmware on your DNS-323. The latest firmware can be found at http://www.support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DNS%2D323#firm.

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Hitachi Deskstar 7K160 HDS721680PLA380 SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 HDS722512VLSA80 SATA 1.5G HDD 120GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K160 HDS721616PLA380 SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K500 HDS725050KLA360 SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K80 HDS728080PLA380 SATA 3G HDD 82.3GB*
Hitachi Deskstar P7K500 HDP725050GLA360 SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 HDT722525DLA380 SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 HDT725025VLA380 SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360 SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 HDT725032VLA360 SATA 3G HDD 320GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 HDS721010KLA330 SATA 3G HDD 1TB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.B HDT721010SLA360 SATA 3G HDD 1TB*

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6V080E03 SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Maxtor DiamondMax 11 6H400F0 SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Maxtor DiamondMax 20 STM3160811AS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Maxtor DiamondMax 21 STM3250310AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Maxtor DiamondMax 21 STM3500320AS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Maxtor MaxLine III 7V250F0 SATA 3G HDD 250GB
Maxtor MaxLine Pro 7H500F0 SATA 3G HDD 500GB

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD753LJ SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Samsung Spinpoint P SP1213C SATA 1.5G HDD 120GB*
Samsung Spinpoint S250 HD250HJ SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Samsung Spinpoint T HD321KJ SATA 3G HDD 320GB
Samsung Spinpoint T HD400LJ SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Samsung Spinpoint T HD401LJ SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Samsung Spinpoint T HD501LJ SATA 3G HDD 500GB

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250620AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3750640AS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3500630AS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS SATA 3G HDD 320GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS SATA 1.5G HDD 160GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3400832AS SATA 1.5G HDD 400GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3200826AS SATA 1.5G HDD 200GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST380810AS SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3160812AS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3160815AS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3750330AS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3750640NS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS SATA 3G HDD 1TB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS SATA 3G HDD 1.5TB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3300831AS SATA 3G HDD 300GB
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3500641AS SATA 3G HDD 500GB
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3250620NS SATA 3G HDD 250GB
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3320620NS SATA 3G HDD 320GB
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS SATA 3G HDD 500GB
Seagate DB35.3 ST3250820SCE SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Seagate SV35.2 ST3500630SV SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Seagate NL35 ST3400833NS SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Seagate NL35.2 ST3400633NS SATA 3G HDD 400GB

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Western Digital Caviar GP WD5000AACS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS SATA 3G HDD 200GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500AAJS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200AAJS SATA 3G HDD 320GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD4000KD SATA 1.5G HDD 400GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500AAKS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD SATA 3G HDD 150GB*
Western Digital RE WD2500YS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital RE WD1600YS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Western Digital RE WD2500YS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital RE2 WD5000YS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Western Digital RE2 WD7500AYYS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Western Digital RE2 WD1000FYPS SATA 3G HDD 1TB*
Western Digital CaviarŪ Green WD20EADS SATA 3G HDD 2TB*
Western Digital CaviarŪ Green WD10000CSRTL SATA 3G HDD 1TB
Western Digital CaviarŪ SE WD1200JS SATA 3G HDD 120GB
Western Digital CaviarŪ Blue WD5000AAJS SATA 3G HDD 500GB
Western Digital SE16 WD7500AAKS SATA 3G HDD 750GB

It makes one believe that other drives may work, but are not officially tested and approved.
Also many of the drives listed are not available as new purchases, perhaps some newer info could be posted.

An example, I wanted 2 - 1 Tb seatgate drives, but the only ones I can find right now are Seagate Barracuda 7200.12  1TB Sata Drives, the list only goes to 7200.10.

I think D-Link should at least provide a link to the compatibility list on the outside of their packaging. Spending a few dollars to do this, will more than pay off in customer satisfaction.

All this being said, I guess even at D-Link its "Buyer Beware" 
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