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The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers => DIR-636L => Topic started by: MDA on February 25, 2014, 12:23:43 PM

Title: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: MDA on February 25, 2014, 12:23:43 PM
I've been reading up on this bufferbloat phenomenon and enabling QoS on the DIR-636L certainly lowered my Upstream buffering from 260ms to a mere 88ms. This is good news as I fluently game.

The problem is I need to use the "Automatic Uplink Speed" option since my 50/10 connection from Comcast goes a little over 10 and the upload is somewhere around 12.5mb. This is an issue with other routers and people wanting to manual input their known upload speed. This router tops out at 10240kbps for manual setting.

The problem within a problem is what I also have. Automatic Uplink Speed works, however it changes after a couple days. I read that it should only re-detect the upstream bandwidth when the WAN link is re-establishing (router reboot, modem reboot, etc.). This effectively varies my upstream bandwidth because it doesn't consistently detect around 12.5mb. It fluctuates from 4826kbps all the way to 19906kbps as high as i've seen it.

This ruins the traffic shaping for Upstream and if too low or high of a upload speed causes more upstream bufferbloat than is necessary. The way i get around it is pressing "Save settings", go to another page in the advanced tab (like virtual settings), going back to the QoS engine page, and refreshing till it detects the uplink speed. I keep doing this till its within 1 or 2mb of 12.5mb uplink.

This is a hassle and would be better if there were firmware updates for many modern routers that just allowed the QoS engine to be set up to say, 100mb because there are upload speeds as high as this in today's world. It may not be for efficient bandwidth control exchanging, but surely for BUFFERBLOAT (keeping your uplink speed just below your actual to keep it from filling the buffer).

EDIT: My modem is an Arris TM722G 4 channel DOCSIS 3 modem and I am wired by ethernet to the router
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: FurryNutz on February 26, 2014, 07:13:33 AM
Link>Welcome! (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48135.0)

FW Update Process (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=42457.0)

We've seen some issues with Arris modems btw:
Arris Cable Modems and External Routers (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=50682.0)

This model router tops out at 10Mb and I presume that is by design and the avg home user may or may not have that need for an Uplink speed and will not be changed by D-Link. I'm an avid gamer and my ISP doesn't have that kind of a Uplink speed...yet. I'm at 50/3 here. I bought this for my brother in law for xmas and it's a nice little router and stable. I even gamed on it with XBL while visiting.

There are other, well better suited D-Link routers out there that have fast uplink speed selections and is better suited for gaming and better suited for higher Uplink speeds. I recommend that you review this for some models that have 20Mb Uplink speeds:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=44869.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=44869.0)

I recommend that you have your ISP check the cabling going to the ISP modem, check signal levels going to the ISP modem. For cable Internet, RG-6 coaxial cable is needed, not RG-59. Check for t.v. line splitters and remove them as they can introduce noise on the line and lower the signal going to the ISP modem. Connecting to the ISP modem could result in a false positive as the signal to the modem could be just enough to that point then adding on a router, could see problems. The router operation is dependent upon getting good data flow from the ISP modem and the modem is dependent upon getting good signal from the ISP Service.
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: MDA on February 27, 2014, 03:10:08 PM
What Hardware version is your router? A1 (says so on the router page)
What Firmware version is currently loaded? Firmware 1.04 (April 2013)
What region are you located? North America
Are you wired or wireless connected to the router? Wired (CAT 6)
Has a Factory Reset been performed? Yes (when downgrading to FW 1.03 and back to  FW 1.04)
Was a Factory Reset performed before and after any firmware updates then set up from scratch? Same as above

I factory reset the thing when I thought I was having NAT issues (wasn't really an "issue" but how the router handles UPnP clients differently from other router's i've used).

Again as the router basically works fine for internet connectivity, to what the optimal configuration could be, its a hassle to get the QoS engine to read my correct upload speed (since manual only allows up to 10mb). Before buying the DIR-636L, i used a Netgear WNR3500v2 that was able to manually set QoS uplink to higher than 10mb (It has a slower processor and less ram than the DIR-636L). I switched because IPv6 didn't work on it.

As has been stated before by you, Furrynutz in other threads (like the DIR-655 2mb QoS limitation), the QoS engine may not be capable of more than 10mb uplink (which is [no offence] obviously false if it detects upload speeds higher than 10mb and doesn't show "Not Estimated" or "upload speed has surpassed necessary limits" or what ever it was).

I'm sure a 700mhz top-of-the-line Ralink RT6856 CPU (which is also found in the 826L) could easily handle more than 10mb set manually, but I know it's to get consumers to buy up into higher priced "gaming" router's that have the same hardware, but more flexible firmware.

I have no problem using "automatic uplink speed", but going in after 2-3 days and messing with it for correct values I don't think is the intended behavior of the QoS engine itself. The modem uptime has not reset since the router changes uplink speed, telling me that its more of a router issue (though minor in many people's cases).

Your sticky about Bufferbloat and lag compensation has made me look into it in all of my networking equipment and as I said before, setting up QoS correctly on the DIR-636L does eliminate the latency to where its negligible. Just don't like having to set it "correctly" every 3 days.

I know you are going through the basic steps, but my modem levels are within spec (4 channels at 6 dbmv downstream [it's cold here in minnesota] and 3 upstream channels all at 42 dbmv) and has not randomly disconnected due to power levels.
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: FurryNutz on February 28, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
I presume that the main issue is that this router tops out at 10Mb limit on the Uplink and your ISP is giving you 2Mb over that. I presume there is some issues with this. I presume that if you took this router to a different location with a lower Uplink, you probably would not see this problem.

I would recommend getting into a DIR series router that has the 20Mb Uplink limit...

Good Luck.

Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: MDA on February 28, 2014, 04:51:36 PM
I realize what you are saying, but to me that seems like a silly design limitation when the hardware easily supports it.
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: FurryNutz on March 02, 2014, 02:07:49 PM
You could phone contact D-Link support and ask them about this...

Let us know if you find out anything...

Good Luck.
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: MDA on March 06, 2014, 02:01:43 PM
It's alright. Like I said, router works perfectly for the majority of my use. It just a little nitpick I was having and wanted to wonder why the router behaves this way.
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: FurryNutz on March 06, 2014, 02:07:47 PM
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: MDA on March 06, 2014, 02:18:28 PM
Well seriously, I don't think this simple setting should be an issue if any company and especially tech companies would stop treating their customer bases like gerbils in a cage.

If they were to learn from each other, D-link (in my specific case) would take a note from Linksys (when it was a division of Cisco) or Netgear and have a least a little more preference rather than trying to clean up a router's interface and limiting features to a 50$ more expensive model.

The summary of today's tech world is "We have to wait for a new standard to update our products". Where's this innovation that they all talk about? Sorry for the rant. Good day, Sir.
Title: Re: QoS issue for the DIR-636L
Post by: FurryNutz on March 06, 2014, 04:07:52 PM
Thats why there are several different models to choose from. It's the users responsibility to review and figure out what there network needs are. There applications are vast for network needs. Thats why D-Link and other Mfr have various models to choose from.

Good Luck.