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The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers => DIR-827 => Topic started by: Patrick533 on November 23, 2013, 03:45:44 PM

Title: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Patrick533 on November 23, 2013, 03:45:44 PM
Hello,

Well it appears 5 months out of warranty my DIR-827 is having trouble. Maybe someone has ran into this, maybe time for a new router...... :'(

Running the current firmware(1.04). The router works fine until I turn on the WIFI. I recently did a full factory reset of the router and started turning things on one at a time over the last few days, when I turn the 5Ghz WIFI ON, the router starts crashing and restarting. This crash restart cycle seems to be load dependent, if my kids are on the Xboxs or streaming a movie via Cat 6 I have seen the DIR-827 crash 5-6 times and reset in a half hour. If it is just me reading the news, it does not crash as much. Turn off the 5Ghz radio and you would never even know there is a problem. The problem has been going on for a while because I thought it was Win 8 so I switched back to Win 7 and even changed my NIC. That is when I noticed the lights on the router turning orange and then going back to blue like I was doing a power cycle. The logs indicate a reboot of the router but I can't figure out why it is doing it from reading the logs.

Being an Engineer I started wondering if the RF inside the box was causing it so I voided my warranty even further my installing antennas on the back of the DIR-827. The results, one killer WIFI range but the router crashes just as much. I did notice that this router runs HOT inside! A little too hot for my liking.

Being I have a high power 2.4Ghz access point that covers the entire house and then some, I just loose that super high speed 5Ghz, channel bonding 2.4Ghz where I live is impossible, too many people on 2.4Ghz and yes I could force it and walk on them, but that is just not right.......

I'm thinking a good ol California summer cooked it because this has been going on since May time frame.

1 more possibility, the 26 character WIFI password is too much for it. It seems me and my job became a focus of the Chinese hackers(I have had calls from 3 banks and an E-mail from Facebook saying you better button everything down, here is the IP's trying to get into your stuff.) And of course the spearfishing that goes along with it. I'm pretty sure I read this is only a connection password and the router changes it many times once the connection is made.

Any insight or similar circumstances?  
 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 23, 2013, 04:16:32 PM
Any chance you could stick a laptop fan cooler under the router?

I presume a factory reset has been performed and ALL other WiFi APs and devices are disabled and tested with just one wireless device?

Try a simple 3 char PW.

Wondering if your 2.4Ghz AP could be a culprit injecting the surrounding are with RF...
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 23, 2013, 04:41:07 PM
The only user of 5 Ghz was my Android and my laptop, I hard wired the video streaming stuff a while back. I just did a reset of the android and also changed the password for the WIFI(the laptop has not been on the network in a couple of weeks). I am trying a much shorter password as suggested as we speak and I reset the logs too.

RF getting into the router though could be an issue, this setup is too far away and I am using directional antennas going the complete opposite direction. So for this issue I would rule that out.(good idea though)

The guy I purchased the mod kit from on Flea bay had fan and antenna kits, I just bought the antennas. Being the warranty is toast I will make a hole and mount a blower if need be. Frankenrouter!

So far we have been going for 20 minutes since the password change and no crash, I hear the kid using the Xbox 1 so I will go run some speed tests.

Current room temp is about 65F like last night.

Maybe the 26 character random number and the android was doing it, I will go watch some you tube and see if I can kill it.......... It does say I think 8-38 characters for the password in the router, but anytime Android enters the mix you can never tell.......
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 23, 2013, 04:57:07 PM
Keep us posted...
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 23, 2013, 05:16:20 PM
Both Xboxers went to work. So I will have to wait for a full load test(high packet rate).

I just finished watching several 4K test videos on my wired PC while doing speed tests on my Android. No crash and the router is pumping out major heat.

I will get back after a couple of days of beating on it, still kind of leaning towards a medium CPU fan. Then you just have to deal with the LA dust and grime.......

Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 25, 2013, 05:56:27 PM
I guess the wireless password was too long at 26 characters!

Since reducing the wireless password to about half of that I have no issues!

I will start turning back on IPV6 and such, but since it was just crashing last week with a recent factory reset and once I reduced the password length it ceased, I don't foresee any issues.

The software does say up to 38 characters but I guess no one has ever pushed that.

If anything changes I will post, otherwise I am good to go!

Thanks!
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 25, 2013, 07:07:06 PM
Thanks for sharing. Interesting how that many characters causes the router to mis-behave.

Enjoy.  ;)
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 26, 2013, 06:23:02 PM
Nope! My mistake! The Xbox 1 kid is home tonight and the DIR-827 is crashing again...... It actually crashed and bumped my Android to the high power 2.4Ghz A/P, once I forced the Android back to the 5Ghz DIR-827 again, the DIR-827 started crashing again(several times)......

Turned off the 5Ghz in the DIR-827 and not a problem since! I even moved the DIR-827 today to locate it away from all noise sources. I guess my 5GHZ is baked! Bummer, I really like that band. :'(

It made it through one California summer!

These new router just run so darn hot, before I bought my DIR-825 the router I had before that I had for years. If it was NOT for IPV6, I would resurrect my old Actiontec! Looking inside at the DIR-827, even if I wanted to go in and heat sink it to death I could NOT, no room.....

Too bad.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 26, 2013, 07:18:56 PM
Were seeing some router crashing with the DGl-5500 with XB1. I'm wondering if there is something on the XB1 doing something. I'm not impressed but the XB1 networking. Worked with my friend in CA with his and the 868L. Were seeing both Wireless and wired LAN connections being connected at the same time...causing some NAT issues. We presumed that if the wired LAN connection is used, that the wireless should be disabled.

Was all good on the 360 and went to pot when he got the XB1.

You sure the 5Ghz is gone? Turn off all other devices and test with only one trusted 5Ghz device and see.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 26, 2013, 07:34:35 PM
No, this has been going on before the XB1. He just puts a major load on it and maxes it out. It did the same thing with the Slim but I thought it was my NIC card acting up.

It it had not been going on for so long, I would say it was the android.

I will try my laptop with the 5Ghz tomorrow or later on tonight.

I will get back in a couple of days.

BTW, the XB1 is wired!
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 26, 2013, 07:56:46 PM
Well, just turned the 5Ghz radio back on and it crashed within 10 minutes with no clients logged in and the XB1 is currently off the network too. So now I am back to surfing with no WiFi on on the DIR-827.

So far as long as that radio is off I have experienced no crashes......
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 26, 2013, 09:08:57 PM
Try a factory reset and re-load FW?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 27, 2013, 08:19:49 AM
Right now I am trying it with both radios on. Before I only had 5Ghz on. Theoretically if it is a heat problem, this should make it worse. I don't have any clients connected to the WiFi so we can rule out incompatibly.

Next, reset and reload. I saved my DIR-825 with the 30/30 reload. Extreme yes and risky too, but this router did fine for some time. It held up to 4 XB's gaming and a streaming movie at the same time, no problem. Now 1 PC and 1 XB1 is killing it in a 70F house. Something is wrong!

My 2 college kids came to me last night and asked what router do you want for Christmas? The router you have works fine for you and mom and you have spent hundreds so we can game, if you can't work the bugs out we will get a new top of the line router for you Black Friday. Kind of nice since I am still unemployed, but more for them since they are causing the heat. The problem, most new routers have beans for IPV6 support, especially firewalls. I'm seeing dual core routers out there and I read the manual, no IPV6 firewall. As far as the oilcans D-Link is selling, the design is actually way better then the router I have and has MAJOR IPV6 support. I looked at the insides on small net builder, they are still stacking the darn radios, we tried this back in the olden days, too much heat buildup, bad design. I used to have a 12 channel thermal probe for problems just like this. In the DIR-827, the processor/heat sink is right under the radios like a BBQ!

I'm leaning towards we cooked something in the router last summer, but hey, a firmware reload won't kill me and since I just did a factory reset, all of the setting are FRESH in my head!

If they JUST would have fixed the firmware in the DIR-825 and added a FIREWALL :'(

Holidays and such will take a few days to sort this out.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 27, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
I wonder if the 827 suffers from a similar heat issue the DAP-1533 is seeing:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=56166.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=56166.0)

Please try a laptop cooling fan and see if this might help as a suggestion.
If anything, keep the 827 as your main host router and turn off the radios and up grade and connect a DAP-1525 in AP mode. Other model optons there.

No reason to get another router really.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 27, 2013, 01:48:48 PM
Well,

I actually was pretty close to breaking out the Dremmel and putting a large CPU heat-sink fan or power supply fan on top last night. Much like the post you directed me too, that is what I have done to routers in the past except I use thermal epoxy instead of JB weld, probably pretty close though thermally, thermal epoxy has Aluminum in it. I have a whole box full of heat sinks I got as a sample when I was a EE, but D-LINK stacked that darn WiFi board right on top of a flat piece of aluminum that D-Link designed as a heat sink for components under that , the same one that burned me!

This morning I moved everything over to a switch so that at least should help a little. The router no longer is acting as a switch, just a router.

When I said Franken-router I was not joking. After I have exhausted all other possibilities, I WILL COOL IT!

As I said above, there is a guy that sells cooling kits on Fleabay for a popular brand of router that also has this problem, they don't look bad, just a small CPU fan, though I may have to go with 2 small fans because of the amount of heat.

My PC has 2ea 140MM case fans, 2ea 120MM fans just for the 8 core CPU heat sink, 2ea more 120MM case fans and 3ea 80MM video card fans all running at low speed, you can barely hear my PC when it is on. My video card was running at 90C when gaming when I first built it, now I consider 50C high, but the system does start getting noisy under full load, kind of like a jet ready for take off. But I have NEVER met a game yet I can't run at full detail!

I will try the easy stuff first(setting tweaking), then install a fan or two(maybe 3).

Thus far it has not crashed in over 12 hours........
   
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 27, 2013, 02:08:43 PM
I bought one of these for cooling testing for users reporting the 857 was getting hot:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Onn-Laptop-Cooling-Pad/16794998 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Onn-Laptop-Cooling-Pad/16794998)

Well all too temps on that router. I couldn't get mine to heat up near what some others were reporting. I talked to D-Link and they said all temps we were reporting were with in spec. I presume this could be however I wonder about duration and were and tear on the router when it's constantly hot like that and over time, does it degrade?

I just posted my mod i did for my DAP-1533. I'm amazed that they used non metal heat sinks instead and he fixing of the sinks was bad as well. I know thats not used in the Amplify line however maybe the addition of some metal sinks could help here as well.

Keep us posted.   
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 27, 2013, 03:02:48 PM
I have one of those chillers for my laptop, they work great! Mine is aluminum with a whole bunch of holes and some fans. Better then burning my legs!

Yes! Heat reduces the life of electronics significantly, but some components are designed to take it better then others. Silicone IC's have a breakdown temp, down remember the exact numbers but I think a 100C operating temp is pretty close, that is why I went ape with fans on my video card. Nvidia said 90C was OK, but still for how long? They are in the business of selling chips. MTBF is the term.

Well I just downloaded several gigabytes of data through the router, it is warm here today. My desktop my laptop via wifi and another desktop, I kept it loaded HARD for 45 minutes! Nothing, works great.

I wonder if maybe packet collisions were a problem since everything is on a Gigabit switch now? I don't know enough about Ethernet and Packet timing, but with as many bugs as Microsoft usually has, it would not surprise me!

I will keep an eye on it and next I will reload the firmware if/when it cacks again.....
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 27, 2013, 03:11:46 PM
Keep us posted.  ;)
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 27, 2013, 05:24:38 PM
I thought we had it, then it crashed 4 times in a row. Every time it would restart it would crash again. Below is what I captured from the logs, it is clearly shutting itself down, but why I have no clue...... Ignore the date, every time it crashes I need to reset the date.


Nov 19 12:24:23    gpio create pidfile /var/run/gpio_power.pid
Nov 19 12:24:22    avahi-daemon 0.6.30 exiting.
Nov 19 12:24:21    Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface br0.IPv4 with address 192.168.1.1.
Nov 19 12:24:21    Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface br0.IPv6 with address fe80::86c9:b2ff:fe63:e4b.
Nov 19 12:24:21    [ 37.812414] flags=0
Nov 19 12:24:21    exiting on receipt of SIGTERM
Nov 19 12:24:21    received signal 15, good-bye
Nov 19 12:24:21    received signal 15, good-bye
Nov 19 12:24:21    received signal 15, good-bye
Nov 19 12:24:21    received signal 15, good-bye
Nov 19 12:24:21    version 1.8.3 started
Nov 19 12:24:19    dhcpc sent restart signal to rc (RESTART APP)
Nov 19 12:24:19    dhcpc is waiting for rc to be idle.
Nov 19 12:24:18    HTTP listening on port 43377
Nov 19 12:24:17    dhcpc is waiting for rc to be idle.
Nov 19 12:24:17    [ 33.833132] br0: port 3(ath1) entering forwarding state
Nov 19 12:24:16    [ 32.893176] br0: port 2(ath0) entering forwarding state
Nov 19 12:24:16    [ 32.838565] 8021q: adding VLAN 0 to HW filter on device ath1
Nov 19 12:24:16    [ 32.838511] br0: port 3(ath1) entering learning state
Nov 19 12:24:16    [ 32.838466] br0: port 3(ath1) entering learning state
Nov 19 12:24:16    HTTP listening on port 65530
Nov 19 12:24:15    dhcpc is waiting for rc to be idle.
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.894417] 8021q: adding VLAN 0 to HW filter on device ath0
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.894353] br0: port 2(ath0) entering learning state
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.894300] br0: port 2(ath0) entering learning state
Nov 19 12:24:15    using nameserver 2620:0:ccc::2#53
Nov 19 12:24:15    using nameserver 2620:0:ccd::2#53
Nov 19 12:24:15    using nameserver 208.67.222.222#53
Nov 19 12:24:15    reading /etc/resolv.conf
Nov 19 12:24:15    ( (831)action 1,major 8,minor 0)
Nov 19 12:24:15    ( (831)action 1,major 8,minor 0)
Nov 19 12:24:15    ( (832)action 1,major 8,minor 1)
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.508995] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.472627] sda: sda1
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.462023] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.461932] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.460493] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 15523840 512-byte logical blocks: (7.94 GB/7.40 GiB)
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.234173] sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0
Nov 19 12:24:15    [ 31.215234] scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access Generic STORAGE DEVICE 0206 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
Nov 19 12:24:14    [ 30.886262] br0: port 3(ath1) entering forwarding state
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 27, 2013, 05:44:20 PM
Ok, lets disconnect everything from the 827 including the USB drive. I might even do a factory reset with only one wired or wireless PC connected and test this out with out any other devices connected. Maybe even try with out the ISP modem connected. Install a different router with out any wireless so you can still provide WiFi if needed.

Need to see if the router does anything with out being connected to the ISP modem and having other devices connected...then graduate connecting devices...
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 27, 2013, 06:11:41 PM
That is the weird part, no USB drive but I seen that in the log too.

I have to do Turkey day shopping when my wife gets home in 30 minutes, so I just turned off the WiFi for now, I do have a memory card in the router, I pulled that just for giggles.

I am finding the shutdown error all over the net when I Google it, the only fixes I have seen is a firmware upgrade. The DIR-655 had a pretty good history of doing this when it was new.

I will re-install the firmware in the morning or late tonight, might even pull my older router out for now.

Kind of weird, it usually happens the same time everyday.  ???

Modem logs are CLEAR!

Happy Turkey day! "I'll be back!"
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 27, 2013, 06:19:00 PM
IF this is happening during the same timeframe of the day...could be interference or something on the net.

Keep us posted. I got to prep turkey tonight. I'll be around.

Cheers.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 27, 2013, 10:44:19 PM
OK,

Reset factory defaults, wiped router via 30-30 method and installed firmware V1.02(it was at V1.04).

Only changed what I had to to get it online. No WiFi, auto time, IPV6, nothing.

I did change the DHCP renew from 1440 minutes(24hrs), to 999999, which is in like 2015 before it renews IP addresses.

So now I beat on it for a while!

So far it is working good, usually because I have had IPV6 installed windows wants to use that 1st to go places but it seems with this old firmware the 2-4 second wait is not present and it use IPV4 instantly. So no rush to turn V6 on!

All 3 of my kids will be here tomorrow, so by then I will have everything back online for them but I will still not change anything in the router. If that don't work and it starts it's usual crashing I will put another router inline and this will become my router ONLY for a few days. Too busy to take it completely offline during the Holiday. I'm sure I will have to print 100 pictures tomorrow!

I was thinking about just removing the top of the router before I go to all the trouble of cutting a hole in the case for a fan if it is heat.

The 1440 minute DHCP renew has me wondering, I always set it to 99999 but I stopped awhile back.

I have a AT&T Microcell that provides a cellular signal to my house via IP, it is part VPN and part IP transport, I wonder if that 1440 thing was fighting with that. I guess only time will tell.

Enjoy the Holiday! :)
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on November 29, 2013, 10:18:44 AM
Since I have reverted back to 1.02 I have had no problems for 24hrs.

I turned IPV6 back on this morning, so another day or two for that.

I had read some older posts yesterday. One person had went back to 1.02 and it cured his problem but he still got rid of the router because he could not run the latest firmware.......... Kind of like offing my PC because windows 8 stinks. I had even posted that I was running 1.04 with no problems in the same posts but I did NOT have any 5Ghz clients at the time. I just upgraded my laptop with a Intel 802.11AC radio 6 months ago and bought an android with 5Ghz around the same time frame. Before that I don't think I used the radios in the DIR-827.

That stupid 1 watt A/P sure was worth it's money, not a hiccup in several YEARS.

More to come.........
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 29, 2013, 10:24:25 AM
I might put my 827 online and run it as well...even though I don't have IPv6 native ISP support here so I usually set Local Only on my routers...v1.04 loaded here.

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on November 29, 2013, 10:57:38 AM
Oops, for got i had loaded v1.05.  ::)
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=53218.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=53218.0)

I have it online now and will run some tests on 5Ghz. Got a DAP-1533/Xbox 360 and my Mac Book Pro connected.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 02, 2013, 08:19:57 PM
Well that pretty much concludes that!

3 firmware versions, 3 complete wipes and whenever the internal WiFi is on it crashes, usually several times in succession. It actually went into a crash-restart loop last night, the only way I could get it to stop was by quickly turning off the WiFi and saving it before it crashed again. 18 months, that is a record for me. I tried to contact D-link to buy a new WiFi module but they can't fit that into the script I guess.

I was just running the WiFi with no clients attached. I guess it really may not even be the radio module, could be the PCI interface. Either way with all the heat in that general area, 4380Hrs MTBF. Maybe they sent me a refurb after the DIR-825 fiasco, that would actually make more sense.

Getting bored with the whole IPV6 thing, all my previous routers are several years old in a box and they all still work, the only reason I replaced them was to add functionality, parental controls, printer ports, etc......

I have a couple of ways I may go next, a PC with Unix, 2 nic cards and router/nat/firewall software or the router my kid(s) is pushing with the dual cores(802.11AC like my notebook, 1750?). Probably be cheaper electricity wise to go with the router, 60 watts vs a minimum of 200 watts.

Thanks for the help, but me thinks this box is beyond help! Hopefully the router with the WiFi OFF will be stable for a while longer.







Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 06:57:05 AM
Only thing I might do is to test the 827 in a different environment. Say a friend or families place just to see if a different environment could result in something different. I agree, I think the Wifi on the 827 is probably toast. I've been using my 827 since you posted about yours. Seems to be doing well however duration of use is much lower than what I presume yours was and being in a different environment, could have different results. Still makes me wonder if your 2.4Ghz blaster could have had any impact on the 827... :-\

If the router portion works, shut off the Wifi on it and connect up a DAP model AP like a 1525, 1533 or if you want AC, connect a AC Wifi. Would make a simple work around and upgrade too.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 03, 2013, 08:44:28 AM
Well,

We are in a zone to where if I had a spare card I could rule out the WiFi card being bad. But unfortunately both WiFi bands are also located in a ISM band which makes noise common, such as cordless phones or medical devices. I would actually consider my fairly high end 5Ghz cordless phone system a possible problem but the whole reboot loop thing has me kind of baffled. The WiFi router should just change channels?

The kid is a high packet rate user but not so much data, it usually only happens when he is online until the night before last and I was the only one home. I told the kids last night, do we really want to go spend 200 bucks on a new router right at this second. The WiFi is off and so far the router is stable, everything else can run on the 2.4Ghz high power AP, it might be a good idea to wait. I don't really want to give up my IPV6 though it is really not necessary.

Then the time thing, it always seems to do it around the same time, but then again that is when it is being used the heaviest. Maybe the base that is a stone throw from my house is resetting everything. We actually have another base that is about 60 miles(Camp Pendleton) away that warns people in the newspaper that their RF stuff is going to go wacko for a couple of weeks out of the year.

For now, I think I will just label it as FM, the last word is "Magic", use your imagination for the 1st. I have seen things in electronics and RF especially that just simply defy logic still after 35 years. Looking at the logs from last nights gaming session, nothing! Rock solid!  (Scratching head!!!)

Unless a router shows up, I am not going to buy one or solicit one. My wired PC/work/gaming station is once again rock solid.

BTW, I just went to the D-Link home page to look at those AP's, it appears they are full on IPV6 now(I have a little Firefox widget that tells me 4/6/mixed).

 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 09:01:26 AM
I would run a test of that router in a different local if possible at some point. I'd be open to helping you out with that?  ;D

Did you try v1.05? I presume you did.

Ya, seen some odd things in my experiences with Radio and WiFi over the years. For the most part things are fairly standard, however in some case, may not be.  ::)

Thanks for sharing info about Dlinks web page. I wish my ISP was supporting it.  :-\

Keep us posted on how it goes.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 03, 2013, 12:25:26 PM
I said above I had 2-ea 140MM case fans on my workstation. My mistake, I should have said 200MM(About 8-9 inches across) case fans, they don't turn very fast but they move A LOT of air. The DIR-827 is now sitting on top of one and has been for about an hour. The DIR-827 is COLD to the touch. It was very warm when I started, the house temp today is about 68F. It blew a bunch of warm air out for about 15 minutes. All of my equipment sits on wire shelving to let air flow pass so that never was an issue. The PCI bus chip on the WiFi card is rated for 80C ambient, I don't have my thermal equipment any longer otherwise I would have done a temp profile on the router and I am not going to even guess what it is but too hot to touch for long would be a good description of the internal heatsink.

No, I did not try 1.05, it was not on the FTP site, I only tried .04, .02 and .01. Currently running .02.

WiFi is back on and the logs have been cleared. Now the wait........ If it fails, it was not heat.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 12:33:59 PM
Wire shelving? What this wire shelving made of? Metal I presume? Could be a cause of bad signal propagation and interference.  :-\

v1.05 is on main Canada site if you want to test it later on.

I wonder if the addition of some chip set heat sinks would be a good idea, Like we did here:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=56166.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=56166.0)

Keep us posted...
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 03, 2013, 12:40:18 PM
You said you have your DIR-827 running? Do me a favor and ping it a couple of times and maybe run a tracert to yahoo.com or something.

I am seeing what I consider high pings for a router that is 15FT away via CAT6.

I am getting 2-3ms pings with V6 on or off.

Thanks!
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 12:50:09 PM
I did this for someone in the DSLreports forum just a few days ago:
I can ping that IP and avg mostly in the 80ms's an I'm well north of you:
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=84ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=87ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=85ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=84ms TTL=40
Reply from 74.125.139.139: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=40

Ping statistics for 74.125.139.139:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 50, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 82ms, Maximum = 331ms, Average = 88ms


I'll do a test for you with tracert using CAT6 and IPv4...
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 04:46:31 PM
C:\Windows\system32>tracert www.yahoo.com

Tracing route to ds-any-fp3-real.wa1.b.yahoo.com [206.190.36.105]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    10 ms     7 ms     7 ms  ##.###.##.#
  3     9 ms     7 ms     8 ms  192.168.69.89
  4   106 ms     8 ms     7 ms  192.168.102.173
  5    17 ms    17 ms    24 ms  xe-8-2-2.edge2.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.53.158.5]

  6    18 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ae-14-51.car4.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.69.147.134]

  7    18 ms    17 ms    18 ms  YAHOO-INC.car4.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.79.106.26]

  8    23 ms    29 ms    21 ms  ae-7.pat1.gqb.yahoo.com [216.115.96.45]
  9    22 ms    21 ms    21 ms  ae-1.msr2.gq1.yahoo.com [66.196.67.3]
 10    22 ms    23 ms    21 ms  xe-8-0-0.clr2-a-gdc.gq1.yahoo.com [68.180.253.13
5]
 11    21 ms    22 ms    24 ms  et-18-25.fab5-1-gdc.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.31.182
]
 12    21 ms    22 ms    21 ms  po-14.bas1-7-prd.gq1.yahoo.com [206.190.32.23]
 13    21 ms    22 ms    25 ms  ir2.fp.vip.gq1.yahoo.com [206.190.36.105]

Trace complete.

This look ok?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 03, 2013, 06:09:04 PM
This one: 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1

Mine is 2-3 ms, it used to be < 1 ms

I am running 192.168.1.1 for an internal IP, ever run into that being a problem(.1.1 vs 0.1)?

I have tried 2 different NIC's, locking in the speed, you name it. The internal network transfer speed is still right up there, it just takes a little longer to get going.

We are seeing increased pings across the board. That is the major reason the kids want to go with a high end router, this one is sloooooowing down. I compared the one I told them I like, the speed comes in the same as the DIR-827 almost 100%, number of simultaneous connections and everything.

Miss my DIR-825, I have heard they have added a firewall to hardware C-1 and above!

This is direct to the router, no switch or anything.

1     3 ms     2 ms     1 ms  dlinkrouter [192.168.1.1]
2     9 ms     7 ms    13 ms  XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
3    10 ms    10 ms     8 ms  dtr03rvsdca-tge-0-1-0-3.rvsd.ca.charter.com [96.34.100.76]
4    29 ms    10 ms    11 ms  crr01rvsdca-tge-0-4-0-1.rvsd.ca.charter.com [96.34.96.232]
5    16 ms    15 ms    15 ms  bbr01rvsdca-bue-2.rvsd.ca.charter.com [96.34.2.66]
6    13 ms    15 ms    11 ms  prr01lsanca-bue-5.lsan.ca.charter.com [96.34.3.7]
7    15 ms    13 ms    14 ms  eqix.lsan.twtelecom.net [206.223.123.36]
8    21 ms    14 ms    14 ms  ont1-ar3-xe-0-0-0-0.us.twtelecom.net [66.192.251.90]
9    15 ms    17 ms    15 ms  66-192-151-102.static.twtelecom.net [66.192.151.102]
10  19 ms    24 ms    18 ms  host-66-59-236-253.static.linkline.com [66.59.236.253]
11  16 ms    15 ms    15 ms  host-216-66-249-9.static.linkline.com [216.66.249.9]
12  15 ms    15 ms    18 ms  host-216-66-249-93.static.linkline.com [216.66.249.93]
Trace complete.

Weird man!
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 06:23:10 PM
I haven't tested with .1.1. I mainly use 0.1 here. Would be a major change here to test .1.1.  :P

My test was thru a switch then to router. CAT 6 cabling.

Hows your ISP modem signals? Ensure the signals are good.

Ya they added Firewall to the 825s Rev C. Rev C is the most recent version. Only seen limited users with it.

What ISP modem do you have?
You wanna test .0.1?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 03, 2013, 07:26:28 PM
I just pinged everything in the house, slower then I would expect. Turned off jumbo packets just in case, no change! Switched over to a gigabit switch, no change. I am running 2 D-link gigabit switches in daisy chain so they have enough hard wire in the gaming area, might try unplugging that too.

Since I attached the windmill to the router it has not crashed! 5ghz is up and running.

The cable modem signals are very good, when we moved in I nabbed the closest room to the cable entry point for my office, street>1 splitter>modem. Actually some of the signals are a little high but within spec.

I have Charter, downgraded to 30x4, I did have 100x5 but they raised the price to like 110 a month, not worth it. Brand new Arris TM902A modem, I get 2 telephone lines from them too but I did try a Motorola SB6120 and Zoom 5341J last week, no difference. We have 8 bonded download channels so that is usually ROCK solid.

I thought the kids had left but one of them is home gaming tonight. I will switch to the latest firmware and .0.1 in the morning before they get up. I might reset my NIC in my machine to defaults since I have changed NIC cards at least 3 times, just to make sure a setting did not get messed up.

So far no crash, this is the time it would usually have died at least 5 times.

More tomorrow, I'm IP/IT baked for the day. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 07:34:16 PM
Jumbo isn't recommended on these routers. Have seen a couple of Admins not recommend using Jumbo frames.

Arris = barf  :-X

Is splitter of good quality? Can you remove it temporarily by chance?

Glad the fan seems to be helping. Makes me wonder if something is heating up your router. I took a temp on mine tonight and just normal operation, saw at most 108F on the right side of the top surface area. Most other temp is 80-90F. I might open mine up and see if adding some chip set heat sinks could help some.

Also see if you can remove that metal shelving for something wood or plastic?

Keep us posted.

Get some sleep. Nighty night.  ;D
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 03, 2013, 08:11:38 PM
Charter won't let us use our own modems anymore, the only reason they let me use mine last week was for testing.

They have made at least 10 trips to my house to get the signals where they are today.

When they 1st installed cable my power level was at -15 and signal to noise was 30. They wanted to put an amp inline to band aid fix it. I told them to go out there and balance the system like it is supposed to be. After getting the California Public Utilities Commission involved with threats of fines, this is as close as they could come(and the daily modem resetting and phones NOT working stopped, let alone the daily TV outages). The upstream is a little too close for my liking but the SNR is great. Actually if I take the splitter out I will be out of spec on the upstream.

Interface Name    Freq                    Power      SNR      Modulation
Downstream 1   649.750 MHz   4.10 dBmV  41.30 dB     QAM256
Downstream 2   613.750 MHz   2.70 dBmV     41.10 dB     QAM256
Downstream 3   619.750 MHz   2.90 dBmV     41.00 dB     QAM256
Downstream 4   625.750 MHz   3.30 dBmV     41.40 dB     QAM256
Downstream 5   631.750 MHz   3.60 dBmV     41.40 dB     QAM256
Downstream 6   637.750 MHz   3.70 dBmV     41.40 dB     QAM256
Downstream 7   643.750 MHz   4.00 dBmV     41.40 dB     QAM256
Downstream 8   655.750 MHz   4.30 dBmV     41.30 dB     QAM256

Upstream
Interface Name    Frequency      Power            Type      Symbol Rate    Modulation
Upstream 1   23.76 MHz     36.00 dBmV   ATDMA   5120 kSym/s   QAM64

Status
System Uptime:    3 days 00h:05m:13s
Computers Detected:   0
CM Status:   OPERATIONAL
Time and Date:   Tue Dec 03 19:45:14 2013

I will put the DIR-827 on my wooden desk tomorrow for testing but that is a little close if it starts crashing again, damage could be imminent!
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 03, 2013, 08:42:11 PM
Shame they wont allow BYOM.  >:(

So you got my curiosity going this evening and I opened up my 857, Any of this look familiar to yours if you opened yours? I didn't open my 827 as it's currently online.  ;D
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa396/furrynutz740il/image1_zps0c1cce38.jpeg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/furrynutz740il/media/image1_zps0c1cce38.jpeg.html)

I'm curious if the following mod would be any helpful in this 8 series router heat issue that some have experienced.

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa396/furrynutz740il/image2_zpsb0dec4d2.jpeg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/furrynutz740il/media/image2_zpsb0dec4d2.jpeg.html)
I see the same composite heat tab on the one chip as on the DAP-1533 and I presume other routers as well. I tried to move it and it's stuck on there pretty good. I guess thats a good sign.  ::)

Proposed addition of metal low profile heat sinks:
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa396/furrynutz740il/image3_zpsf9fbf186.jpeg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/furrynutz740il/media/image3_zpsf9fbf186.jpeg.html)

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa396/furrynutz740il/image4_zpseff90600.jpeg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/furrynutz740il/media/image4_zpseff90600.jpeg.html)
I don't think the cover will allow for the bottom sink so I removed it for posterity.

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa396/furrynutz740il/image5_zpse5783ffe.jpeg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/furrynutz740il/media/image5_zpse5783ffe.jpeg.html)
Definitely no room for any mods underneath.  ::)

Of course this would be in extreme cases maybe. It wouldn't be a hard mod to do though. It's easy to take the cover off and just apply the new heat sinks.

I might try this on the 827. I need to go to the computer store and find more heat sinks.  ::)

Heat Sink Specs: Similar
High conductivity thermal adhesive tape
Size:14x12x5.5mm
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 04, 2013, 09:39:08 AM
All of these are pretty similar, just setting them on a fan has cooled mine. The way they designed it for convection cooling is a good design. The rising heat is made to pull in cold air from the bottom and that cools it off a little. A fan on the bottom blowing upward has done a much better job here. The laptop chiller idea certainly would work well and since there is a USB port on these, there is your power! The cooling on these would have been better managed with more ports for the heat to come out of. You look at my CPE modem, I can see and read all the chips through the case. Basically the case becomes nothing more then a plastic screen door instead of a fashion statement. I think the Motorola modems were the same way. It lets the heat flow much better, almost like no case at all.

But then my world comes crashing down and IPV6 has to go!

The Xbox 1 has IPV6 enabled by default, I guess for the last few days they have been really enjoying the IPV6 on the XB1 here. The XB1 basically circumvents all of my DNS filters(no pirate bay, **** sites, etc) and gave them FREE access on the net to do as they please. It is very hard to filter IPV6 because instead of having 1 IP and then a NAT, EVERYTHING gets it's own IP address randomly. So I turned off IPV6 last night and now I have some upset MEN "I don't trust on the internet"! There is more to that story then I can go into here but unless I run 2 routers, no more IPV6 HERE. At least until the MEN get out of my home and start paying their own way with a REAL job instead of living off me and Mom(rant complete).

So far the router with the fan is stable with the WiFi turned on, I will give it a couple more days. I changed the addressing last night to .0.1, there is really no difference and I also went back to firmware 04. I am still getting 2-3ms pings just off the router with IPV6 turned off. I am going to break out my old FIOS router and just hook it up to my computer to test pings and such later today. Most routers these days will do close to a gigabit from wan-lan, back in the day the FIOS routers was the only thing that would do 30Mbps. Being your pings to your router are sub 1ms, I get the feeling that this router did not make it through a California 90F summer and the fan is just prolonging the inevitable. BUT, only time will tell. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 04, 2013, 09:46:44 AM
Try v1.05 as well.

Glads it not crashing anymore since you put on force induction cooling.  ;D

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 04, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
FYI, I took the cover off the 827 while running live and online, and that one chip with the composite heat sink read 128-130F.  :o

Wonder if thats ok. I think I'm going to apply a metal heat sink to that one chip...what do you think about this?

After applying the one heat sink directly on top of the other one, heat reading was around 112-113F.  :) This is not under any load so I'll connect some WiFi and see what happens and take some readings.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 04, 2013, 05:03:21 PM
Well that is below the max that the manufacturer said it was OK to run at, but I am not sure what that thing on top is supposed to do, some new newfangled heatsink material. The manufacturer said 176F MAX, but that is going to cut the life WAY down on the part. When we do MTBF calculations, temp is one of the major contributing factors to solid state electronics death. Just 10 degrees C less can add a bunch of life to an IC on paper.

My IPV6 woes have disappeared, the IPV4 router I used to do that with showed the same ping times as the DIR-827, so long term cooling this thing is in my future since I am now running 2 subnet's, if there is room and I can find a low profile heat sink in this here box, I'm going to epoxy some aluminum on 1st just to get an idea if it is that chip or not. Don't really want to spend the bucks on a layer 3 managed switch...... Cooling the Dir-827 is now on the top of my list, but I have an employer jumping down my throat wanting an interview so it may be a day or two until I can start the project. I wish I had an IR thermometer but then again if it stops crashing, I guess that was it.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 04, 2013, 05:10:58 PM
I bought my iR gun on amazon for $15. Werks great and cheap enough to get one IMO.

Seems like the metal heat sink mod could help save or prolong life. Still test your router away from that metal shelf as well.

Gook luck on interview and keep is posted,..
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: Patrick533 on December 07, 2013, 05:20:58 PM
Ok,

Pretty much done testing!

I moved the DIR-827 onto my desk and put it on my laptop chiller using the USB port on the back of the DIR-827 instead of the fan. Even the kids asked "did you find out what was wrong with the network" because it has not died in days!

Everything is enabled! WiFi, you name it, as long as I have a fan on this thing it works great! Turn the chiller off and within a few hours, CRASHOLA. One thing I noticed before I moved it, I noticed I had gained about 5-6 db more signal strength on the WiFi using my laptop with Inssider. Turn the fan off, the signal strength would slowly drop. The laptop can't move! I think the DIR-827 WiFi was reducing power as it heated up.

Too bad! Now I want my DIR-825 BACK, that thing was rock solid!

I looked at buying an aluminum box to put this thing in and heat sink it properly, project boxes are 30 bucks now days, I guess aluminum is now a precious metal!

I have done enough to convince myself that this DIR-827 has a heat issue, it was in the mid 40F's here today. If it makes it through this summer, fine, if not, E-waste. I looked to see if D-link had a repair service, it's called "buy a new one". We don't even turn the AC on here until it gets past 90F and that is mostly because of the animals. It probably got damaged by heat here last Summer and being at that time I had 2ea 2.4ghz high power networks, one for high speed("N" short GI) and one for the B&G only, I never noticed until I gave one of my high power routers away to a friend and switched to 5Ghz. The high power routers were always 10-20 feet away from the DIR-827, if a little 1 watt AP damaged the DIR-827, it had problems to begin with. The usual MAX signal strength in my office is -25Dbm on 2.4Ghz and drops quickly as you move away.

Oh well, another one bites the dust.......

I might try putting small fans on it but considering the temps here in the summer, there is not enough temperature headroom for that, maybe only as a router. :'(

Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput?
Post by: FurryNutz on December 08, 2013, 12:00:27 PM
I presume that both the 827 and 857 will have this issue.

I recommend doing the sink mod and maybe keep a fan on it during warmer weather conditions if your going to keep the WiFi radios doing. If you still want to keep the wired portion of the 827 going, I feel it would be still a good router for you, just turn off the radios and install a newer DIR-8 L series router in wired AP mode as your new WiFi upgrade to the 827 router. Or maybe a DAP model unit in AP mode would be a good set up as well. I think the router will be good to keep going until it completely dies or it's time for an upgrade.

Let us know and keep us posted. Have a great weekend.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 11, 2014, 03:25:13 PM
Really sorry about being so late on getting around to this.  Forgetting, an extended vacation, and realizing I only have NorthBridge heatsinks laying around has stalled me on getting this done.  I am going to order some Swiftech MC14 copper heatsinks for this if anyone who has tried this thinks they will be suitable. 

http://www.swiftech.com/mc14bgamemoryramsinks.aspx

Will those fit within the router and be up for this or do I need to find something smaller?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 11, 2014, 03:44:34 PM
I think the hight will be the factory.

They should be around the following dimensions:
Size:14x12x(5.5mm<height)
20mmx19mmx5.5mm

You'll need 2 sinks to install. I found mine at a local PC parts shop. "Universal VGA Heatsink and fan kit by startech.com (http://www.startech.com). It comes with a large round style heat sink and fan for a video card however there are 8x 20mmx19mm and presume the height is>(5.5mm) small chipset heat sink block like the ones in the picture. Entire kit was $25 bucks. I can't seem to find it on there site, however if one to call them, might find out if they still ship it. I'll find a use for the large heat sink and fan later on. The back of the kit says the dimensions are 20mmx19mm. This may be the correct dimensions however no height dimension numbers are given.
 ::)

Update: I had someone confirm for me that these are the correct dimensions for the heat sinks that are desired for this mod: 20mmx19mmx5.5mm

FYI:
I just bought a DIR-835 from fleabay and it arrived to day. Low and behold same composite heat sink tab on top of the one chip...wasn't fixed well. I pulled it off and looked at the taped bottom of the sink, only 2 small portions of the sticky tape where it had touched the chip were seen. Not a full entire coverage of the chip was seen so heat transfer on from the chip to the heat sink I presume would not be good and eventually probably deteriorate the chip over time.

Let us know if you can find the correct size chips, maybe we can help you locate some...Keep us posted.

Really sorry about being so late on getting around to this.  Forgetting, an extended vacation, and realizing I only have NorthBridge heatsinks laying around has stalled me on getting this done.  I am going to order some Swiftech MC14 copper heatsinks for this if anyone who has tried this thinks they will be suitable.  

http://www.swiftech.com/mc14bgamemoryramsinks.aspx

Will those fit within the router and be up for this or do I need to find something smaller?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 11, 2014, 04:03:54 PM
I might need some help finding those.  I called a few places I normally deal with and they don't have anything that small.  If you can find something that will ship them to me in Canada and preferably copper but not necessary, I'd be more than happy to order them.  One other thing I'm a bit curious about.  What's the easiest way to get the casing off of the DIR-857?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 11, 2014, 04:07:29 PM
After taking the screws off, gently lifting the front side of the cover, upwards then gently pulling the cover in a forward direction should help release the back latch tabs and it should come right off with out breaking the tabs off. Once you do it you'll see how it's done...

I'll start looking for other resources for heat sinks...

I sent Startech a form letter on there site asking if they still have this one kit available.

Those heat sinks would work that you found, there just too tall.  ::)
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 11, 2014, 04:16:25 PM
Thanks for that.  I might yank it apart later just for the fun of it and shoot it some more with the thermo gun. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 11, 2014, 04:25:28 PM
I think these might work:
http://www.amazon.ca/Heatsink-Perfect-Raspberry-copper-aluminum/dp/B00EVJF3JO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ce_1 (http://www.amazon.ca/Heatsink-Perfect-Raspberry-copper-aluminum/dp/B00EVJF3JO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ce_1)

Eh, just looked at the dimensions, there smaller than what we need...still looking.  ::)

I don't know if directron ships to CA, could ask. There would be great:
http://www.directron.com/rhs02.html?gsear=1 (http://www.directron.com/rhs02.html?gsear=1)

This is closer, still a bit to hight I think:
http://www.amazon.ca/XINTE-Aluminium-Quality-Heatsink-Processor/dp/B00HN2AY4A/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389486882&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=aluminium+chipset+heatsink (http://www.amazon.ca/XINTE-Aluminium-Quality-Heatsink-Processor/dp/B00HN2AY4A/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389486882&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=aluminium+chipset+heatsink)
I wonder if the Mfr of these also has 5.5 or 6mm if we try to contact the Mfr directly...

Here we go:
http://www.amazon.ca/XINTE-Aluminium-Heatsink-Graphics-Motherboard/dp/B00HN26I54/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389487218&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=XINTE+Aluminium+4+PCS+22*22*6mm+High+Quality+Heatsink+Heat+Slug (http://www.amazon.ca/XINTE-Aluminium-Heatsink-Graphics-Motherboard/dp/B00HN26I54/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389487218&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=XINTE+Aluminium+4+PCS+22*22*6mm+High+Quality+Heatsink+Heat+Slug)
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 11, 2014, 04:57:48 PM
After taking the screws off, gently lifting the front side of the cover, upwards then gently pulling the cover in a forward direction should help release the back latch tabs and it should come right off with out breaking the tabs off. Once you do it you'll see how it's done...

Mine must be on pretty good.  I can't get those front clips to release and I don't really want to just rip the top off. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 11, 2014, 05:04:52 PM
No, don't remove them, leave them on. Just attach the new metal ones right on top of the composite ones.

I'm starting to think I've missed a screw.  There is the two under the little rubber things.  Is there a third and maybe even a fourth under the label?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 11, 2014, 05:07:41 PM
There are 4 screws..two under the small round flat surface rubbers and 2 under the square ones.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 11, 2014, 05:08:25 PM
There are 4 screws..two under the small round flat surface rubber a 2 under the square ones.

Thanks!  That's why then.  :p

Edit:  Got it!
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 11, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
Kewl...take pics when and if you do the mod. Let us know the temps your seeing on the one chip.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 11, 2014, 05:24:23 PM
Here we go:
http://www.amazon.ca/XINTE-Aluminium-Heatsink-Graphics-Motherboard/dp/B00HN26I54/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389487218&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=XINTE+Aluminium+4+PCS+22*22*6mm+High+Quality+Heatsink+Heat+Slug (http://www.amazon.ca/XINTE-Aluminium-Heatsink-Graphics-Motherboard/dp/B00HN26I54/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389487218&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=XINTE+Aluminium+4+PCS+22*22*6mm+High+Quality+Heatsink+Heat+Slug)

I just ordered these.  The ETA for those is a few weeks.  Not used to dealing with Amazon.ca but I'll let you know when they get here.  I have Arctic Silver MX4 I am going to use between the heatsink and surface.  This stuff is non-conductive so I don't have to worry if a tiny little drop gets on to something it's not supposed to.  It's not an adhesive but for this application, it will provide a good seal between the two and hold the light heatsinks in place with ease.  Thanks for the help in getting this started!  [=
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 11, 2014, 05:35:48 PM
Ok, im not sure about the heat xfer compound and the affixing of the sink. I would try the heat tape that comes w those sinks first as test to make sure the sink will stock it the coposite sink. I suppose ur compound will work. We will want pics to see that though. Keep us posted.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 21, 2014, 01:32:59 PM
Just to keep things linked up on this similar issue, I bought a DIR-835 and here are my findings:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=56166.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=56166.0)
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 24, 2014, 01:28:02 PM
Okay.  I got the heatsinks today and took the time to slap them on the same points that are shown  previously in this thread.  Keep in mind that I am using a DIR-857 (pictured) and the heatsinks I could round up are black but still made of aluminum.  I chose to use Arctic Silver MX4 for a couple of reasons.  It's a non-conductive thermal paste (not adhesive) with enough sticking power to hold them in place but also makes them fairly easy to remove and to clean off the compound as well. 

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l62/jcsww/D-Link%20DIR-857/IMG_20140124_155754.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l62/jcsww/D-Link%20DIR-857/IMG_20140124_160103.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l62/jcsww/D-Link%20DIR-857/IMG_20140124_160509.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l62/jcsww/D-Link%20DIR-857/IMG_20140124_160559.jpg)

Please excuse the crappy camera on my Nexus 5 for the quality of the pictures. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 24, 2014, 01:51:21 PM
Awesome pics man. Thanks for sharing.

I think the sink closest to the SD card hold will probably have to be removed as the routers cover will probably not fit, unless you leave the cover off entirely.  ::)

Hope the testing will result in better operation.  :o

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 24, 2014, 02:18:57 PM
Awesome pics man. Thanks for sharing.

I think the sink closest to the SD card hold will probably have to be removed as the routers cover will probably not fit, unless you leave the cover off entirely.  ::)

Hope the testing will result in better operation.  :o

Keep us posted.

I've had no issues getting the cover on.  I haven't put the screws back in it yet but will after a couple days of testing. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 24, 2014, 02:22:30 PM
Ok, sounds good. Hope it works better...Keep us posted.  ;)
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 24, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
A couple of things to note so far.  Whatever is under the diamond head spreader seems to be the hottest thing I can specifically identify in my unit.  Even with the heatsink on it and the Arctic Silver inbetween to help it transfer heat.  That heatsink (the one I've put on it) still hits 46C fairly easily.  The upper (towards the back of the unit) that I also put the heatsink on is hitting 41C also.  I remember getting temperatures in th4e mid-50's C before.  I haven't stressed it out a lot yet but these two spots, even with added cooling, need more to dissipate the type of heat both of those parts are generating.  The one closest to the front has been topping out at 36C so far.  I would say that is still on the warm side for not being fuly stressed. 

I have noticed that the bottom of the unit doesn't seem to be as hot but I am running with the top off currently.  This makes me wonder if a part of the heat issue with these routers is not enough ventilation on the top that is forcing that heat down and out the bottom and heating up the bottom of the router as well.  This is definitely a classic example of poor design coupled with a poor decision to be cheap on the cooling solution in my opinion. 

Expect more as I hammer this router over the weekend. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 24, 2014, 04:18:11 PM
How is your router placed? What kind of materials are around it? Any metal?
Aren't you in a WiFi congested area?

What devices do you have connected to it? Wired and Wireless?

Hate to ask, however can you post C and F values please?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 24, 2014, 04:24:30 PM
How is your router placed? What kind of materials are around it? Any metal?
Aren't you in a WiFi congested area?

What devices do you have connected to it? Wired and Wireless?

Hate to ask, however can you post C and F values please?

Nothing connected to wired other than my fiber modem but yeah, I have major congestion issues here.  One positive note, the Arctic Silver is doing a fantastic job in making sure that heat gets transferred to the heatsinks.  It's currently sitting on my hardwood floor away from everything without the plastic cover on the top.  The only things connected over wireless right now is my laptop using 5GHz N and my Wii-U on 2.4GHz N. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 24, 2014, 04:38:20 PM
Do a couple of tests, Shut off the 2.4Ghz radio and leave the 5Ghz radio going. Then swap radios. Then turn OFF both radios and test temp at each stage.

Please report temps here...
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 25, 2014, 07:13:20 AM
Regardless of which is in use, I am finding the temperatures to be consistent. 

2.4GHz (5GHz off)

46.9C is the righest on the diamond.
36C is the highest on the heatsink closest to the back of the unit.
44C is the highest on the heatsink closest to the front of the unit.

5GHz (2.4GHz off)

Tempers were pretty much the same after the unit was turned off for an hour before checking the temperatures after 20 minutes of average use (single stream watching Netflix on N).  This was the same used for my testing on 5GHz. 

Point of note: If you look at the two heatsinks I have placed on the board and follow them over to where a connector from the side connects to the PCB.  The PCB around that connector tops out at 42.3C.  Whatever is under that point on the back side clearly isn't being cooled enough but there is no way to adequately cool it without creating a whole new hosing for the router. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 25, 2014, 07:32:13 AM
Ok, So here seeing avg temps around 110F-115F.

What are the temps if you turn off Both Radios, 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz?

Is there any place besides this location you can take this router too to test this? Family or Friends and do the same temp tests? I'm curious if your WiFi congested area is having an impact on the WiFi, depending on your temp results of both radios being turned OFF.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 25, 2014, 07:51:58 AM
Actually going to tackle that this afternoon as I'm just heading out for a few hours. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 25, 2014, 08:01:11 AM
 ;)
Also do you have access to a laptop cooler fan by chance?
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 25, 2014, 11:59:15 AM
With both radios off under the same cirumstances at the other, just wired.  The temps aren't much different at all.  

45.7C is the righest on the diamond.
35.3C is the highest on the heatsink closest to the back of the unit.
43.6C is the highest on the heatsink closest to the front of the unit.

I do have a laptop cooler but it's not really small enough to benefit the router.  Honestly, the best solution for cooling this router is copper heatsinks with a heatpipe and thicker, better thermal compound used, better ventilation, and active cooling.  I realize I may come off as a bit anti-D-Link with what I'm about to say but they clearly failed to make a respectable product here with both models.  Both the design and engineering teams behind this product along with the person who signed off to put it into production need to be fired!  
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 25, 2014, 02:45:39 PM
I'd like for you to test this router in a different location just to see if these temps follow if possible. With and with out the WiFi radios on with out any LAN devices connected. Just sitting there. I'm wondering also if there could be a power problem as well. Maybe the router is getting to much DC on the adapter maybe? The router should not be hot if nothing is connected and doing anything.

These temps are a bit high, however there has only been a few people mention it here in the boards. I have both the 827 and 857 routers and the run well, warm sometimes. However I don't have WiFi congestion here and use them on a normal basis. Nothing extreme. Even sitting with radios going, usually hang around 80-90F.

Have you phone contacted D-Link support yet about this? I would and talk to someone at level 2 or higher.

I'll post back if I hear anything about this on my end. 

Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 25, 2014, 03:09:18 PM
WiFi congestion is a big issue in a large apartment building.  However, I see no label on my box that says I must live 50 miles from anyone else for this product to work properly.  I keep my apartment fairly cool also (about 45F) as I love the winter and have ridiculous A/C for the summer.  I have taken the temp gun to my RT-AC66U with that under more load than the DIR-857 could ever take an it doesn't even touch 40C, let alone 50C.  Before I bought the Asus, the D-Link was seated in the same place.  Everything in here is plugged in to APC Surge Arrest 11's that are rated for commercial use.  Again, no complaints with the Asus RT-AC66U.  My DIR-855 holds up better under full load than the DIR-857 does with light use. 

Before I took this thing up to my cottage which is in a fairly rural area, I had talked to D-Link about it, posted about it, and tried a few different internal beta firmwares that were sent directly to me from Pardeep Vahra with no real improvements.  I gave up on it for home use and took it up to my cottage where I barely use it for anything other than web browsing.  My cottage and being a few miles away from anything, this router still tops 40C easily and hits 54C under heavy loads.  Even using the PowerLink Boost N for WiFi on it with the WiFi for the DIR-857 turned off, there were times it would just stop sending traffic.  I was never offered an RMA and as stated, I moved on with a fantastic product.  Considering I have owned D-Link after D-Link all the way back to the late 90's.  I have come to the conclusion that their products just aren't up to the quality they once were.  I do hope everyone else has a much better experience with the current product line. 

Furry and Patrick, you both do great stuff here and D-Link is definitely lucky to have two excellent posters that are as thorough and knowledgeable as you both are. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 25, 2014, 03:28:50 PM
Understand man. We understand the frustrations as well. Over all I think there is a problem with your particular router and a few others that have expressed there concerns about it.

Not sure if D-Link Canada would be willing to offer you an RMA if it's still in warranty. I would press them about one if it is in warranty.

I have asked D-Link USA to review this and offer any info about the temps. I'll post back if I get any info.

I would like to thank you for your patience and working with us, even on dong the Mod and testing as you have spent your own money to see if the mod would help. This has been informative, however I wish it had worked out better for you. I do believe there maybe a problem with the HW on your router and do hope that D-Link Canada can get you an RMA. Your router needs to be inspected by D-Link for this issue to see whats actually going on.

Over all, D-Link routers are built well and work well. I have expressed by concern about the heat issues to D-Link personally. The newer canister style routers are nicely built and seem to have better heat dissipation since the air flow is better designed in them. I have enjoyed the 827 and 857 routers though. I presume that this style of case will no longer be used since D-Link has moved to the canister style now. I they been keeping with the older box style in some of there rev follow ons with external antenna features. I wouldn't let this one experience completely turn you off of D-Link products though. I know you have moved on, however something else maybe in the future.

I'll post back if I hear anything. I would pursue an RMA if possible.

Good luck.

Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 25, 2014, 04:09:09 PM
If they offer me one knowing I have taken it a part and added the heatsinks to try and help get it stable, I'd send it in, heatsinks and all.  When it comes down to my home setup, I need something that works and reliable.  I had heard a lot of good things about the Asus RT-AC66U when it launched and I got a promotional deal on it locally.  It was too good to pass up and I needed something reliable for both streaming and gaming. 

I'm actually glad you messaged me to about trying that mod though.  I enjoyed taking it a part and such to try and help out.  I don't mind that stuff at all and it has been a fun learning experience for me as well.  I have never had to take a part a router before and I do hope D-Link takes a look at these issues some are having more seriously.  I really had hoped this mod would have helped out my router and it has to a small degree.  Unfortunately, it just wasn't enough as it still runs over the temps listed in the manual with added cooling.  Most of all, I hope D-Link takes a look at all of the testing and feedback here and produces a better product for the consumer down the road.  A more powerful processor, better cooling, and a realization that consumers need more than a 2Mbit uplink are three things I think D-Link need to take back to their design teams. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 25, 2014, 04:16:38 PM
Most of the newer routers have fixed the 2Mb Uplink cap...they use the new Traffic Shaping engine that the 645 came out with. Up to 10Mb Links are selectable now.

If you do get an RMA, you could take the mod out and clean it up if needed. Hehe.

I like the cylinder style routers now. Heat doesn't seem to be problem now.

Ya it's interesting to break open one of the routers and see what it looks like under the engine hood.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on January 25, 2014, 04:24:34 PM
Most of the newer routers have fixed the 2Mb Uplink cap...they use the new Traffic Shaping engine that the 645 came out with. Up to 10Mb Links are selectable now.

If you do get an RMA, you could take the mod out and clean it up if needed. Hehe.

I like the cylinder style routers now. Heat doesn't seem to be problem now.

Ya it's interesting to break open one of the routers and see what it looks like under the engine hood.

10Mbit uplink is a step in the right direction.  With fiber and cable speeds hitting well over 100Mbit, I still think they have a long way to go in that respect.  The best fiber connection in my area is 175Mbit down/175Mbit up.  That's a service that is a lot more than I would want to pay for but 10Mbit seems to be the bottom line for upload on any fiber service up in a major city. 

I'm not a huge fan of the look of the cylinder routers but I wouldn't not buy one based on the look.  For me, it's purely about reliability and performance.  It could come in hot pink with My Little Pony's all over it but if it was a solid product with great performance, I'd hide it under my desk.  :p 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 25, 2014, 04:30:02 PM
Well there had been some debate about uplink speeds. I presume with 100Mb uplink speeds, there maybe no cause for doing any Traffic Shaping at those rates. I presume there maybe some point that any data manipulation just isn't needed.

This is the new Traffic Shaping UI being used:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48291.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48291.0)

Even thought the canister style may not appeal to some, They are very good from what i have, I have 2 of them and I have been enjoying both. The 826L is a great follow on to the 827, 825 series routers and the 868L is the best of them all IMO. Thats just me...
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: ektorbarajas on June 04, 2015, 01:26:43 PM
Hi Furrynutz.

As I mentioned on my post for DAP-1360 firmware: http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=62278.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=62278.0)

I modded my DIR-827, I used the 3 heat sinks and so far it has been 4 days (almost 5) that my WiFi is working as expected.

But still I'm concerned about the DIR-827, If i touch the case at the top, it stills feels very hot, but so far it has not collapsed.

I turned off the 5 GHZ band (to diminish a bit the processing for the DIR-827):

I'm thinking on getting a cooler fan base (for 10" laptops) and place it beneath, just in case.

Kind regards
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on June 04, 2015, 01:29:20 PM
Yes, I use a laptop cooler for any router I have online now days. Just better to be safe then sorry.

Hi Furrynutz.

As I mentioned on my post for DAP-1360 firmware: http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=62278.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=62278.0)

I modded my DIR-827, I used the 3 heat sinks and so far it has been 4 days (almost 5) that my WiFi is working as expected.

But still I'm concerned about the DIR-827, If i touch the case at the top, it stills feels very hot, but so far it has not collapsed.

I turned off the 5 GHZ band (to diminish a bit the processing for the DIR-827):

I'm thinking on getting a cooler fan base (for 10" laptops) and place it beneath, just in case.

Kind regards
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: ektorbarajas on June 04, 2015, 01:54:53 PM
Why DLINK is not cooling his hardware????
indeed it's a design flaw and obviously demonstrate a lack of testing...

I will go an get a laptop cooler that fits well the DIR-827, hope my WiFi is Ok

Thanks
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on June 04, 2015, 02:24:23 PM
This case style for the amplify line was the first case change since the DIR-855/655 case style.

We can only presume that may be some ventilation considerations where not fully checked when these were designed and MFrd. Since then D-Link has taken into account of these learning experiences. The cylinder style cases work well since then. The DIR-880L has the same style case as the amplify line, just bigger, however the under case has way more ventilation holes now alone with the external antenna.
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=59563.msg237035#msg237035 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=59563.msg237035#msg237035)
I presume that if the amplify line had these holes, the heat issues may have not been as prominent.

Over all, I think there could have been a bit more testing and development in regards to head dissipation issues that the 857/827 saw. Not everyone had the same problem however seems that most of the problems are centered around not having good ventilation and releighing too much on ambient heat dissipation with out more adequate ventilation holes with out knowing the long term consequences of heat on electronic components.
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: Syaoran on June 04, 2015, 03:39:45 PM
Why DLINK is not cooling his hardware????
indeed it's a design flaw and obviously demonstrate a lack of testing...

I will go an get a laptop cooler that fits well the DIR-827, hope my WiFi is Ok

Thanks

I tend to agree and this has kept me away from D-Link products for quite some time now.  Although I don't think active cooling is relaly needed on these models, I do think some gtood copper heatsinks could have gone a long way. 
Title: Re: DIR-827 going Kaput? (DIY Mod For Heat Problem)
Post by: FurryNutz on June 04, 2015, 03:55:03 PM
DLink has come along way in there cooling designs. Specially in the AC router models.

Most Mfrs don't use any active cooling designs at all. Most reliegh on good heat sink design and good case ventilation. I know of only one router that has a fan in it however it's not active, only trigger when router hits a high temp.  ::) And the fan was removed in the Rev B version of the same model router.

For my personal use and peace of mind, I run a laptop cooler anyways, regardless of case style and ventilation. Just seems to help with any kind of router case and ventilation needs. This is not to say that most routers are not designed well. Most are now days and like I said, I think D-Link has learned there lesson.



Why DLINK is not cooling his hardware????
indeed it's a design flaw and obviously demonstrate a lack of testing...

I will go an get a laptop cooler that fits well the DIR-827, hope my WiFi is Ok

Thanks

I tend to agree and this has kept me away from D-Link products for quite some time now.  Although I don't think active cooling is relaly needed on these models, I do think some gtood copper heatsinks could have gone a long way.