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The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers => DGL-4500 => Topic started by: DrunkJug on March 03, 2013, 10:48:20 AM

Title: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on March 03, 2013, 10:48:20 AM
Furry,

Hoping you can help. I have had this router for years now and used to be a Charter internet customer. The router was set up according to your directions and I never really had any issues with it other than needing to restart it every now and then.

We have since moved and I am now on Comcast.

Now when playing Gears of War 3 with my daughter one Xbox will have Open NAT and the other will have Moderate NAT. Nothing has changed and I have been back through your recommendations a few times and made some minor tweaks which have resulted in the same results. Not sure what is going on.

Other than the NAT issues everything else seems to be fine.

Hope you can help me get this sorted.

Thanks
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 03, 2013, 11:27:37 AM
What ISP Modem make and model do you have?

How are the xboxes connected? Wired, wireless or both?

How are the QoS and Application rules set up? Per sticky?
Sorry about the pictures not appearing in the sticky. I'm working on finding other recourses for our sticky pictures.

Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 03, 2013, 12:13:07 PM
Thanks for the reply Furry. You rock!

My modem is a Motorola SB6120 I purchased myself off of Amazon a few years back.

Everything is set up per sticky. I could email you screen shots if needed.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 03, 2013, 12:14:09 PM
Send me pics and also reset your network settings on each xbox as well.

Maybe we can review the router settings via Teamviewer as well.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 03, 2013, 12:19:25 PM
probably sound stupid but I don't know how to send you pics (don't have your email address) and I don't know what Teamviewer is but willing to learn :)

I am on a iMac so I don't know if that will cause any issue with Teamviewer.

Let me know
Thanks
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 03, 2013, 12:21:49 PM
What OSX version is loaded on the iMac? I use a Mac Book Pro with 10.6.8 and 10.8.2

teamviewer (http://www.teamviewer.com)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 03, 2013, 12:26:45 PM
10.8.2
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 03, 2013, 12:32:23 PM
Send me a PM with the remote user ID and PW.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 03, 2013, 12:38:18 PM
I just sent one. Do I need to sign an account with them?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 03, 2013, 12:39:10 PM
No, sent you a message there, waiting for your responce.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 03, 2013, 01:12:20 PM
Thank you so much for your help. Will keep you updated now that everything seems to be working correctly!
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 03, 2013, 01:12:35 PM
Changed GF ports to use Global ports and turn ON uPnP. NAT is open on both consoles now. Keep us posted on how it goes. Enjoy.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 04, 2013, 08:40:34 PM
Just hopped on for the second time since we set this up and once again I have Open NAT on one XBOX (the first one powered on) and Moderate on the other.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 04, 2013, 08:43:23 PM
Have you reset the network settings on both xboxs?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 05, 2013, 09:57:06 AM
actually I had done that right before we did our Teamviewer session. I actually got it to open back up. I had to once again power down the second XBOX and Power it back up.

While I am glad that worked it will get real old real quick if I have to do that every time we both try to play.

I never had these issues when i was on Charter.

I realize the settings were incorrect the other day when you Teamviewed but that was only because I had been in there messing around and a setting didn't "hold" after rebooting the router. On the other hand I DID turn off uPnP which used to always be on because I swear I read that it needed to be turned off (or I misread that it needed to be turned off  ;) ).

I have had this router set up for quite some time and never ran into these problems until we moved and switched ISP's.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 10:07:58 AM
You can test the router with uPnP OFF and see what the results are. Wondering if there could be an issue on the ISP side of things. I now for me and all the routers i've tested, uPnP is ON. And is currently ON using my DIR-826L router and all other routers before that.

I haven't had any chance to test the DGL-4500 with mutliple xboxes. Maybe I'll put the old girl online this evening and it this out. My roommates is using a bridged WiFi adapter connecting to the 4500 at 5Ghz, an my xbox is wired. I'll give this a go and see.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 05, 2013, 10:55:54 AM
cool. It would be interesting to see what you get.

I have had nothing but trouble with Comcast. No one at that company knows what they are doing and each person you talk to tells you something different. At least that has been my experience.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 11:05:23 AM
One thing you can do, swap out xbox places to see if you notice if the problem follows. Swap cabling as well.

Another think you can check for on the ISP side of things, make sure that the cable lines are in good condition going into the ISP modem. Check for any t.v. line splitters. Remove them if you can. If one is needed, use a good quality line splitter. Dedicated cable line is preferred for Internet if possible. Have the ISP check the signal from there box to the modem. I would ask a level 2 or higher to make sure they are giving you accurate reports for signal. Level 1 will probably always tell you, "oh ya, signal looks good." Ya right. Demand a on site inspection if needed. If the signal isn't right for the ISP modem then this can cause a lot of problems that isn't router related.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 05, 2013, 11:44:25 AM
I wonder if something is going on with XBL?  I have been noticing my Xbox's with a moderate NAT every now again when playing BOPS2, I don't recall if both Xbox are on or if just one.  I will keep an eye open.  This started a couple of weeks ago about the same time I added a rule for local port 3074.  I disabled that rule the other day and just kept a rule for the global ports again and I will see what happens.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 11:46:47 AM
Please set us know what you see when using Global ports. I set his for global ports. Remote IPs are specific. Other then that, it's the same ones I've been using since i now have a 2nd xbox to test with.  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 05, 2013, 11:58:50 AM
Holy crap this is a great resource. I can honestly say I have never seen such passion and willingness to help others on the web. It is truly appreciated.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 12:15:49 PM
I wish other users felt the same way as you do.  ::) Thanks for sharing and also thank you for your support.  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 05, 2013, 12:18:34 PM
I turned on both Xbox's just now and both have an open NAT.
 Drunkjug,

What happens if you disable GF?

If you are still having moderate NAT issues try setting your GF fuel rules to this and keep UPnP on. You can use whatever priority you want but try using global ports for local and remote.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 05, 2013, 12:20:16 PM
man I am at work right now and it is going to be a late night for me. I won't be able to check until much later today at the earliest.

I will however check it as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 12:23:05 PM
We saw similar issues with the DIR-857:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=52161.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=52161.0)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 05, 2013, 12:31:05 PM
Hmm no good my screen shot did not work on my above post.  Follow this link for a screen shot of GF rules but change the local port range from 3074 to 0 to - 65535 for the Xbox rule.

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=46570.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=46570.0)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 12:40:23 PM
Those are what I did set up for him...  :-\
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 05, 2013, 12:51:51 PM
Dang furry you are good!  I must have read your post wrong, I thought you had him set up for port specific on the remote range.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 01:12:04 PM
I set specific on the REMOTE IP ADDRESS range, however 0-65535 was used on local and remote PORTs
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 08:27:31 PM
Ok, connected the A2 w v1.23 loaded.
Using Global Ports and specific Remote IP addresses, both wired and wireless xboxes are OPEN NAT. Gaming is good. Full Green bars. Playing BO2 for a couple of hours.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 05, 2013, 08:33:42 PM
specific Remote IP addresses

What IP addresses are you using and why specific?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 05, 2013, 08:53:31 PM
The remote IP addresses listed in the sticky. They are MS addresses only. No need for the router to use any others since it's XBL.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 06, 2013, 06:02:50 PM
Incorrect set up Fury, I thought you fixed this?  Anyway XBL peer to peer, so you actually connect to other Xboxs that will be out of the MS IP range.  I got screen shots if you don't believe me, lol.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 06, 2013, 06:48:00 PM
MS services are only in a certain remote IP address range owned by MS thus I chose using that range. Ports I presume are what varies thus are using global ports. There was nothing to fix that I know of. We played for hours last night and both xboxes were OPEN. Never had any issues using this configuration.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 06, 2013, 07:35:25 PM
yeah its not going to cause issues but if you connect with someones Xbox outside that IP range, then all the packets to and from his Xbox will have the default priority of 128.   So basically you may be given someone the upper hand.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 06, 2013, 07:45:26 PM
Can you explain this a little better? I only play gears of war 3 these days. That series isnt known for its great net code. I run across people that have STRONG guns. I shoot them 5 times to their one or two shots that it takes them to kill me. My connection isnt bad as far as speed tests and ping tests. You are saying that certain configurations could be giving other players the upper hand?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 06, 2013, 09:05:52 PM
Well I went and put in global Remote IP addresses and Ports and we all got booted in the middle of the game. I have reverted back to using specific Remote IP addresses and Global Ports for now.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 06, 2013, 09:19:48 PM
So in general, if using two Xbox; Turn on UPnP, make sure you have DHCP reservations, turn off QoS, and try to limit other traffic being used when gaming. If you want to know why I say that, read below.

Ok, let me see if I can shed some light on this.
First, the IP range for QoS rules doesn't matter. The QoS is only setting priority for traffic. To my understanding it is not routing it or firewalling it. So the worst that could happen is certain traffic inbound to your console from XBL or PSN is given a lower bandwidth marker then say....your torrent download, and so your bandwidth available for your Xbox or PS3 multiplayer is that much less. Its not going to make or break anything. 

Second, QoS only applies to traffic on the LAN, so it can't be directly used to get the upper hand. It can be used to improve your connection if you have other people trying to use the Xbox while your trying to game. It lets you divy out the bandwidth the network is giving certain devices, but if your there are only a couple devices using the internet while your gaming, then it doesn't matter. Actually, the very act of setting priority and detecting priority when WAN to LAN adds some latency (probably not much, maybe none, it depends) so if anything, it could hurt it. Think traffic light set on a timer on a very slow, quiet street. No point.

Third, when using two Xbox, your better off using UPnP for both. Thats because port forwarding can only be used to forward 1 set of ports to one device. If you have two Xboxs, you need 1 set of ports forwarded to two devices, which you can't do. UPnP, in simple terms, takes those ports, and creates random ports in the private port range 4915265535 and assigns a tag to each request on outbound. Its kind of how the NAT in your router takes the one IP your ISP gives you and create IP in the private 192 range. Make sense?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 07, 2013, 04:46:34 AM
I really don't think using global ports or IP range is causing anyone to get booted from the game.  Most likely coincidence, my clan members get booted from games all the time and they are not even using the DGL-4500.

Anyway, I understand how QoS works but here is the thing if you are using MS specific ports 65.52.0.0 - 65.55.255.255, any packets from IP address that are out of that range will have a priority of 128.
For exanple my IP starts in the 70's, 70.XXX.XXX.XXX, so if I was in your lobby playing with or against you, all packets incoming and outgoing from my Xbox to your Xbox, will have a pritority set to 128 while any one else who is inside that IP range will be what ever priority you set your GF rules to.

So any packets that are coming from me will be delayed to all other traffic with a higher priority, understand? This may are not be noticeable but why take a chance and why even set up GF rules if they are not set up correctly???

Anyway, I don't know about anyone else but there is enough lag in online gaming, so I refuse to add to it.

GF:
"GameFuel can also control data packet size. This is important because once GameFuel determines that it's time for an application's data to head out for the Internet, the entire packet will be sent. So in cases where the packet is large and low-priority, a higher-priority packet could be delayed that could cause your shot to miss or your voice to be garbled."

In conclusion,
Next time we play make sure you are set to global IP range so if you get host my packets won't have a higher priority than everyone else and be possibly delayed. ;)

This only applies if you are using manual GF rules.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 07, 2013, 09:17:45 AM
So, with all that and talking with Harry last nite, has given me some other testing cases to try out, HOWEVER after switching back to Specific MS IPs and using Global Ports and uPnP was ON, gaming last night was one of the best nights we've had.

Testimony here: I was lobby host, we did a 10+- game in a row win streak I think. Wins were at least 30-40 point spread on several. I only had one game that I went 0-1 and that was due to me camping a bit too much and not paying attention.  ::) All other games were at least 10-1 for me or 10-0 I had a few games where I didn't die any or only once. I had my roommate on the 5Ghz Wifi, Single mode N, WPA2 and AES only and my xbox was LAN wired to the 4500. We both were having good games last night along with our other team mates. Us and one other team mate were all in the green, 3 others were in the yellow. Not sure if I had host or who did or if maybe I just have the best router in the world configured for XBL.  ::) All this is using the specif MS Remote IP addresses and Global Ports, BOTH. I have a different GF rule to that encompasses ALL other devices for when they are online and if gaming is going on, they still get Internet however mostly when we game at our house, theres only my laptop online for checking router status and other odd ball stuff. Weekends are a bit different however theres only maybe one other PC online while gaming. Most of the gaming is done after 7pm MST.

I'm not implying or arguing that GF settings on various systems may have different results. I'm only saying that from what I'm currently using, experience and have been using has been working very well for Single and for the most part Multiple gaming consoles being online at the same time. I presume there are other various conditions that do and will effect gaming experiences. I do agree that maintaining the best network conditions for gamers starting with the ISP modems, routers and the configurations there in, are high priority areas and in some cases are not paid any attention to by some average gamers or users. Thus we see some lag and gaming problems with in the games.

I think for single console gaming and using GF or QoS isn't a big issue for the most part. Where it comes in to play is having to deal with multiple consoles being online at the same time and the router having to deal with it. I am here to see if we can help narrow the information regarding configuration of routers for these platforms so we can maybe build a better understanding and compile good information or even flexible information so that users can come and find out what they need when these use cases are presented to us.

It's been a long standing question with everyone on what really needs to be configured for gaming regarding GF or QoS, single console or multiple console. I have been a single console user for a long time, only in the past year that I've had to configure and test with a 2nd console and from what I can tell so far, what has been working for me in the past, is still working going forward with multiples. However this is not the only experience nor is it the last word either. I would like to gather up a consensus on various configurations from everyone and review and update the current sticky regarding this. Maybe this will help all the various users and configurations out there and help everyone gain a better experience with there routers and gaming.

Of course, we'll have to be flexible going forward as well, we have no idea what the future holds in regards to all this gaming configuration when the DGL-5500 hits. I'm really hoping that the configuration will be much easier for everyone and maybe we won't have to do a lot of manual configuration with it. Time will tell. 

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 07, 2013, 12:49:50 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one Fury and yeah you camp too much, lol. :P
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 07, 2013, 12:51:53 PM
However camping works very well.  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 07, 2013, 01:04:53 PM
You should come camp with us more often sir.  :P
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 07, 2013, 03:47:00 PM
Yeah I know but when your on I am just trying to squeeze couple of games, hopefully soon!  Just bought a 23" monitor, very nice!
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 07, 2013, 04:00:46 PM

I really don't think using global ports or IP range is causing anyone to get booted from the game.  Most likely coincidence, my clan members get booted from games all the time and they are not even using the DGL-4500. I agree with this.

Anyway, I understand how QoS works but here is the thing if you are using MS specific ports 65.52.0.0 - 65.55.255.255, any packets from IP address that are out of that range will have a priority of 128.
For exanple my IP starts in the 70's, 70.XXX.XXX.XXX, so if I was in your lobby playing with or against you, all packets incoming and outgoing from my Xbox to your Xbox, will have a pritority set to 128 while any one else who is inside that IP range will be what ever priority you set your GF rules to. Actually, XBL is not strictly P2P. Alot of people wish it was, but all multiplayer uses XBL as a proxy, so the IP's your router see won't be those of a actual person, but the XBL servers. Thats what port 3074 does, its the mechanism that NAT's the players IP address to Microsoft server IP. Thats why if you don't forward port 3074 to the Xbox, your NAT type is not Type 2 (excluding UPnP). If you don't believe me, look at your Internet Sessions next time you play and do a ARIN look up.

So any packets that are coming from me will be delayed to all other traffic with a higher priority, understand? This may are not be noticeable but why take a chance and why even set up GF rules if they are not set up correctly??? I disagree. QoS only works on the upload (Thats why part of setting Gamefuel/etc is setting the upload. Notice they never ask for download?). So when your setting the local IP, your defining which computer's upload traffic the rule applies to. So by having a rule that doesn't include a certian IP would only handi-cap yourself, since that upload traffic would get default priority.

Anyway, I don't know about anyone else but there is enough lag in online gaming, so I refuse to add to it.

GF:
"GameFuel can also control data packet size. This is important because once GameFuel determines that it's time for an application's data to head out for the Internet, the entire packet will be sent. So in cases where the packet is large and low-priority, a higher-priority packet could be delayed that could cause your shot to miss or your voice to be garbled."

In conclusion,
Next time we play make sure you are set to global IP range so if you get host my packets won't have a higher priority than everyone else and be possibly delayed. ;) I agree mostly with this surprisingly enough. I was actually the one that came up with that range, and it was only done because it felt...messy to include All IP. I mean if nothing else, there are entire private blocks within a 0 - .255 range. I could see that causing issues in a dual NAT situation. Also I was concerned that Gamefuel might override firewall rules, so it might allow sessions to be created by worms and bots and other things swarming the internet these days. In reconsideration, I don't think GF bypasses firewall, so specifying the range doesn't benefit you and could hinder you. Take note, I said hinder "you" I still don't think it would hinder others playing against you. If that was the case, QoS would be being used all over the place to help people win at FPS. That just isn't happening.

This only applies if you are using manual GF rules.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 08, 2013, 04:49:23 AM
Actually, XBL is not strictly P2P. Alot of people wish it was, but all multiplayer uses XBL as a proxy, so the IP's your router see won't be those of a actual person, but the XBL servers. Thats what port 3074 does, its the mechanism that NAT's the players IP address to Microsoft server IP. Thats why if you don't forward port 3074 to the Xbox, your NAT type is not Type 2 (excluding UPnP). If you don't believe me, look at your Internet Sessions next time you play and do a ARIN look up.


Oh sorry Harry I always refer to COD when talking about XBL since that is all I play online, this game is P2P and it will pick one of the players as the host, so you actually see everyone's IP address in the internet sessions.  Oh I have spent plenty of time looking at internet sessions, remember this thread?
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=46300.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=46300.0)

While playing Bops2 last night I looked at my internet sessions and sure enough, saw 12 different IP's connected to my port 3074, one for MS server that does not host the game and one for demonware stat tracking server, the rest were actual Xbox users that were playing the game with me.

I disagree. QoS only works on the upload (Thats why part of setting Gamefuel/etc is setting the upload. Notice they never ask for download?). So when your setting the local IP, your defining which computer's upload traffic the rule applies to. So by having a rule that doesn't include a certian IP would only handi-cap yourself, since that upload traffic would get default priority.

That is exactly why I include all IP addresses but what if the person is also host?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 08, 2013, 04:48:54 PM
Ok, I've turned OFF GF, IPs are reserved, uPnP is ON, SPI in enabled, NAT is Endpoint Ind for both TCP and UDP. Multi-cast Streaming enabled. No other settings enabled. Will test this tonite with 2 xboxes, one wired, the other on wired AP bridged to the 5Ghz radio the 4500.  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 08, 2013, 05:21:02 PM
The test I want to see is UPnP off and GF on. That way you are testing if GF is forwarding the ports required. But this should atleast show dual Xbox work with UPnP.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 08, 2013, 06:08:32 PM
I'll do that as well sir.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 09, 2013, 08:15:47 PM
We hopped back on a played again last night. Same issue one Xbox (first one turned on) had open NAT and the second had Moderate.

Very frustrating.

About to try again tonight fingers crossed. I will report back with results.

One thing of note is that last night after reading through the recent posts in this thread (and probably misinterpreting them :) ) I switched the remote ip range from 65.52.0.1 - 65.55.255.254 to 0.0.0.0 - 255.255.255.255 after doing that the best I could do is get both XBOX's to have moderate NAT. So I switched it back to what Furry set up and I could get one open and one moderate :(
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 10, 2013, 10:34:03 AM
I ran 2 xboxes last night with GF OFF and only using reserved IPs for the boxes, NAT Endpoint and uPnP enabled. No other devices were online. NAT was OPEN on both and had a good time playing. 4 green bars mostly.

Going to test wtih GF ON and uPnP OFF next.

@Drunkjug, if you turn on the box with moderate NAT first, does the 2nd box then report moderate NAT?

Have you reset the network settings on all boxes? Try swapping the IP addresses on the router to see if the problem travels or persists.

Run a couple of tests like I'm doing:
Just disable GameFuel and leave uPnP enabled, and NAT set to endpoint independent and use the reserved IPs.
Then try: Enabling GameFuel and disable uPnP
When you make the changes for testing, make sure you turn OFF the boxes while making changes.

Let us know what you see.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 10, 2013, 02:35:30 PM
So uPnP is disabled and GF is enabled using Global ports and MS specific Remote IP Addreses and NAT is MODERATE on BO2. Gaming was good as I had a 4 green bars. I've have since put GF and uPnP back to there previous settings with them all enabled and NAT is now OPEN.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 10, 2013, 05:17:56 PM
turnred off GF. Turned on XBOX 1 moderate settings. Turned on XBOX 2 Open. Turned off XBOX 1 turned XBOX 1 back on Open. At that point XBXO 1 and 2 were both open with no GF on.

No ryhme or reason it pretty much seems to do what it wants to.

If I have moderate on either XBOX, USUALLY if I turn it back off and back on I get Open on both. Having to turn off and back on is a pain though and I don't understand why this is happening.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 10, 2013, 05:50:11 PM
So uPnP is disabled and GF is enabled using Global ports and MS specific Remote IP Addreses and NAT is MODERATE on BO2. Gaming was good as I had a 4 green bars. I've have since put GF and uPnP back to there previous settings with them all enabled and NAT is now OPEN.

Ok, then my thoughts on GF are correct. It doesn't do open NAT, which means it doesn't forward ports. I think it just has appeared to forward ports when actually UPnP has been doing the work in the background. So with knowing that I don't think GF should be used as a replacement for Port forwarding. Granted, its quite possible not all Dlink routers work the same way with QoS (AKA GF) but I think in general, GF should only be suggested if a person is seeing problems playing a game because other people are doing things on the network. It can maybe help if people are seeing latency, but truthfully, lag is more likly to be happening because of other issues then traffic management, and enabling QoS at all will always add a tiny bit of lag. These are just my opinions ofcourse. Feel free to discuss.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 07:03:29 AM
I agree, QoS should mainly be used if there are other LAN side traffic being online at the same time to help minimize possible sharing of the internet with other devices being online at the same time or in cases of where multiple xboxes are used as well possibly with other devices.

I think I'll try and update the stickies to reflect this after doing a bit more testing on the 4500 and other model routers.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 07:05:33 AM
Let me know if you want to review your router settings again. Theres got to be something going on that were missing. I have the same set up however using 1 xbox on a bridged 5Ghz connection to the router and my xbox is wired LAN and both are OPEN NAT. There's something going on.

Lets do a factory reset and set up the router from scratch...


turnred off GF. Turned on XBOX 1 moderate settings. Turned on XBOX 2 Open. Turned off XBOX 1 turned XBOX 1 back on Open. At that point XBXO 1 and 2 were both open with no GF on.

No ryhme or reason it pretty much seems to do what it wants to.

If I have moderate on either XBOX, USUALLY if I turn it back off and back on I get Open on both. Having to turn off and back on is a pain though and I don't understand why this is happening.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 11, 2013, 07:12:00 AM
I have a question. I am at work so I hope this makes sense but I thought that in order to forward ports for more than one device you had to "trigger" the ports. There is a page located in advanced/special applications where it says you can "trigger" the ports you want open.

Shouldn't we be using this page to open the ports (so that all devices can get Open NAT) and then GF to give priority to devices on the network?

I would think that this is the way it should work but once again I am no expert.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 07:22:35 AM
I tried using Triggers before. Didn't notice anything. Again, I don't believe thats needed as uPnP handles the opening or seems to handle most of the connections with ports that devices need. I would also think that using any additional router processing would also introduce minor occurrences of lag or slower performance. 

All these years I've been working on these routers, the QoS and GF and uPnP has worked the best and should be working for you as well.

I think we need to start over possibly. Have you done a factory reset and then reloaded that saved router configuration file that I saved for you?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 11, 2013, 07:30:57 AM
ok that makes sense. On the other hand it seems to me as if using these "application rules" the ports would be open at all times kinda like putting a wedge in a door instead of being open and closed when needed by the router.

I almost see it like the way I prefer to use static IP's on my network. I have never had DHCP work reliably for me. At some point or another when I let a router hand out IP's I inevitably get the dreaded "a device on your network is already using the ip X.X.X.X Using static IP's I have NEVER had a single issue because I assign the numbers and take that chance of failure out of the equation.

then again I am no expert and I am just throwing ideas out there just to get some different ideas flowing :)

To answer your question I have not performed a factory reset on the router but I can. I have on the other hand wiped settings on both XBOX's. Thinking about it I should probably change the ip's on both XBOX's to something that I have never used just in case some kind of funky cache issue is going on.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: RocNrolla on March 11, 2013, 07:32:28 AM
I have the dir857 and just  switched back to the 4500.
3 Xbox's 3, 3 copies of Halo 4 and 3 different Gamertags (Me and my two boys)
with just uPnp enabled I get open Nat consistently on all three Xbox's. no other QoS enabled.
reserved Ip's and Nat set to endpoint independent.
with the Dir-857.....that's a different story one is always switching from open to moderate
The 4500 is rock solid for me.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 11, 2013, 07:35:46 AM
yeah I need the GF working though. Because while I am trying to play games I have one child playing with me :) the other watching movies and a wife who is either playing some kind of game or watching a movie or if she is mad at me because I am playing games doing whatever she can to interrupt me :)

can the DGL4500 do anything about wives nagging you to take out the trash?  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 07:36:26 AM
I consistanly get OPEN NAT on the 857 using QoS and uPnP. I haven't tried with out QoS yet.

Have you set the NAT to Endpoint Independent on the 857?

 
I have the dir857 and just  switched back to the 4500.
3 Xbox's 3, 3 copies of Halo 4 and 3 different Gamertags (Me and my two boys)
with just uPnp enabled I get open Nat consistently on all three Xbox's. no other QoS enabled.
reserved Ip's and Nat set to endpoint independent.
with the Dir-857.....that's a different story one is always switching from open to moderate
The 4500 is rock solid for me.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
It's possible that we need to set up a QoS rule for both gaming and non-gaming devices. Didn't we do that?  ???

I don't think DLink included code for that kind of work sir.  ;D


yeah I need the GF working though. Because while I am trying to play games I have one child playing with me :) the other watching movies and a wife who is either playing some kind of game or watching a movie or if she is mad at me because I am playing games doing whatever she can to interrupt me :)

can the DGL4500 do anything about wives nagging you to take out the trash?  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 11, 2013, 07:39:19 AM
maybe it will be in the 5500 lol

I don't think that we set up anything for non gaming devices. I have an additional rule set up for my PS3's although I really don't do any online gaming on them.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 07:45:04 AM
Better NOT be in the DGL-5500.  >:(

Ok, there is an example of GF rule with OtherDevices on the sticky, take a look at it and when you get a chance, add this to the GF rules alone with the one rule we set up for your 2 xboxes. Try reloading that configuration file after doing a factory reset then add the new rule for Other Devices.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 11, 2013, 08:10:35 AM
will do. It will be this evening before I can get to it though.

Once again thank you for your time and effort.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 08:20:34 AM
What we are here for. Get you the best experience from your router.  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 11, 2013, 08:23:48 AM
Hope I am looking at the right sticky. The graphics in the one I am looking at look different from my router.

From what I can tell I need to set up a range of ip's that encompass everything other than the game consoles and give them a priority of 200.

That sound right?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 11, 2013, 09:01:19 AM
Yes you got it. Even though the UI looks a bit different, the data with in can be use on most every DLink router.

I would try using 128 first, then test to see how gaming and the other Devices are working while you are gaming. Theres a fine balance here and adjustments can vary. I've heard that 128 is the normal level for QoS as a standard. Then set your gaming consoles to about 50. Thats were mine is right now. Gaming a great with these settings however.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 12, 2013, 09:16:37 AM
I made the changes to the router but was unable to test them due to the fact that my wife took over the TV last night  :(

Will post back as soon as I can get near the TV again  8)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 12, 2013, 09:22:27 AM
You need to put a block on the TV when that happens sir, gaming and DGL router testing take priority sir.  ::)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 12, 2013, 09:31:10 AM
I know right?  :D

Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 12, 2013, 02:45:00 PM
Its true that Port triggers(AKA Application Rules)can help when using two Xbox's, but not for NAT. The only thing needed for open NAT in a game is for 3074 to be forwarded to the Xbox in question. A single port can only be forwarded (or routed) to a single IP. UPnP works by changing that port on outbound to something random that way those two random ports can be routed to the two different IP for the Xbox. Port 88 is a different story though. Your Xbox uses port 88 to sign into XBL. Long story short, the two devices communicate back and forth real fast talking over that port, and sometimes your firewall will block it because the session might be open for the other Xbox as it tries to sign in. Thats why a fix for some issues with two Xboxs are to turn them both off, turn one on, wait, then turn the other one on. If your having THAT issue, or issue with having both Xbox sign in at the same time, then THATS where setting up a Application rule for port 88 can help. But you still need port 3074 for NAT. Make sense?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 12, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
Kind of. We never sign both of the consoles in at the same time though. I have them password protected so she can only be on when i sign her in. We have had issues with the garbage that populates xbox live. So i sign her in then i go sign in. We might launch gears 3 around the same time though. Other than that i cant think of why we are having issues.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 12, 2013, 07:45:09 PM
Funny, just tonight I signed on to BO2 and NAT was moderate. Game play was still great and 4 Green bars in game. My roommate had already been online playing. I exited from the next game and went and did a factory reset to Defaults in Network Settings on the 360, powered OFF then back on and now NAT is OPEN. All the while my roommate was still playing BO2.  ??? May have been due to the update that was required last night. I changed the specific Remote IPs to global and rebooted everything. OPEN NAT after that. Odd behavior last night for sure.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 13, 2013, 06:58:15 AM
Let us know if you want another review of your router settings.
Kind of. We never sign both of the consoles in at the same time though. I have them password protected so she can only be on when i sign her in. We have had issues with the garbage that populates xbox live. So i sign her in then i go sign in. We might launch gears 3 around the same time though. Other than that i cant think of why we are having issues.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 13, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
If still having moderate NAT check the following.

Make sure the consoles are set to Automatic for IP Address, and set the router (Basic>Network Settings menu) to Enable DNS Relay. 

If using wirelss try G and N only.

Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 13, 2013, 01:40:30 PM
Been using static DNS addresses with DNS Relay OFF. The one wireless xbox is on single N 5Ghz WPA2 and AES only. My xbox that was exhibiting Moderate last night is LAN wired.

I'll give DNS relay ON a test and see what happens.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 13, 2013, 01:44:09 PM
Also do a factory reset to defaults in Network Settings fpr each Xbox after enabling DNS relay.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 13, 2013, 01:47:12 PM
OK. Had to do that last night as well to be sure. Will do again.  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 13, 2013, 05:32:22 PM
If still having moderate NAT check the following.

Make sure the consoles are set to Automatic for IP Address, and set the router (Basic>Network Settings menu) to Enable DNS Relay. 

If using wirelss try G and N only.



Yea, I don't know about that. I think DNS relay causes way more problems then it helps. Sure, a DNS cache could in theory decrease latency of domain queries, but It only works small scale. Normal web browsing or at best, audio streaming. But as soon as the quick UDP traffic picks up in multiplayer gaming, and your creating up to what...32 players, so 32 active connection with DNS look ups. That starts to eat up a router's resources quick. Not to mention issues with the TTL and host migration. I say meh
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 13, 2013, 11:33:21 PM
Do you want an open NAT or what???
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 14, 2013, 07:00:49 AM
DNS Relay was the standard when I first started down this road years ago and was always enabled. It's only been in the last year or 2 that I've shut DNS Relay OFF and use custom DNS. DNS Relay has never been a problem in the past and I only presume its needed for various general information for the various items in XBL. I presume that gaming isn't heavily dependent upon it?

I played again last night using Global settings and DNS Relay OFF and uPnP ON on the router for the two 360s. Gaming was good. Saw a few games where the signal was in the yellow. I think that was due to other players and there network systems. Over all we had a good time. I'm going to go back to using Specific MS Remote IP addresses and test again. Then test with out GF and just using uPnP.

Yea, I don't know about that. I think DNS relay causes way more problems then it helps. Sure, a DNS cache could in theory decrease latency of domain queries, but It only works small scale. Normal web browsing or at best, audio streaming. But as soon as the quick UDP traffic picks up in multiplayer gaming, and your creating up to what...32 players, so 32 active connection with DNS look ups. That starts to eat up a router's resources quick. Not to mention issues with the TTL and host migration. I say meh

Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 14, 2013, 07:27:28 AM
I am going to look at things again tonight. I made the changes that Furry requested me to make and I went in and turned DNS relay off and put in the settings for OPEN DNS on all the equipment on my network. I previously set the OPEN DNS on my router and allowed it to handle all DNS to all devices on my network.

Played a few games after messing with everything again to get Open NAT on both boxes. The game ran horribly. It was unbelievably bad. Went back in and changed the QoS from 50 (what furry recommended) back to 1 and the game ran as bad as it usually does but better than when I had it set to 50.

Once again I had to do this that and the other thing to get Open NAT on both consoles. I am starting to get sick of messing with all of this. I can't imagine how overwhelmed someone who doesn't like tech would be trying to get all of this working. Probably accounts for all the bad reviews that amazon has on routers :)

You know just thinking about this and looking at how many pages we have in this thread is mind blowing. It seems like a problem like this would be very about 5-7 posts max. lol  This is clearly an area that needs extensive refinement in ease of use for customers. Maybe the 5500 will change things?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 14, 2013, 07:44:51 AM
Let me know when your available for teamviewer. I think this is just configuration issue. You and I have the same router, FW and ISP modem. Theres no reason why you should be seeing this problem. Lets go over your router settings again.

I don't recommend using any OPEN DNS addresses for gaming until using ISP DNS can be configured and tested as stable first. Once ISP DNS works well, then later on using other custom DNS should work after doing some testing. For now you need to fall back and use ISP DNS go from there. You can still turn OFF DNS Relay, however manually set up the ISP DNS in the Basic/Internet/Manual section. uPnP should be ON and use the global values for Ports and Remote IP Adddreses for one GF rule for the 2 xboxes. Create another rule for ALL other devices and use the ANY for ports 0-65535 if you have other devices online at the same time that XBL gaming is going on. Just make sure that your device IP addresses don't over lap these 2 rules. This is one reason why I set IP addresses for xboxes to the following range: 192.168.0.190 thru 199. Usually thats enough for any users that may have more than 2 or 3 consoles connected. Set all other device IP address reservations on the router to 192.198.100 thru 189. I've never seen this many devices connected however this gives a good pool range for using any other devices.

Let me know when your available and we'll go over all this again.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 14, 2013, 07:55:01 AM
sounds good Furry.

I have always used Open DNS servers. I have found them to be superior in every way to those provided by the isp's. I don't have an issue changing them though.

Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 14, 2013, 07:58:50 AM
Understand man. Not saying you can't use other DNS, however lets K.I.S.S. for now and rule out any other issues first. Lets try to configure things first and get it stable. Then onces thats all set up and it runs well for a while, then switch over to other DNS.  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 14, 2013, 08:02:53 AM
Whatever we need to do man. I am not a liking having to turn consoles on off on off etc.

Like I said the most peculiar thing is how this never happened when I was on Charter. Every once in a blue moon I would get moderate NAT. Power down modem and router and restart both and I was good to go again for months.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 14, 2013, 08:17:18 AM
Wonder if there is something going on with the ISP service.  :-\ We have seen some odd things with ISP services that can cause Moderate NAT making us think there was and issue with either the router or xboxes.

Lets see what we can do first to make sure the xboxes and router are set up well first.

What speed up and down do you pay for now? Also you should be seeing 2 blue lights on the modem at least.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 14, 2013, 10:57:45 AM
Pretty sure it has two blue lights when connected to the router. I have a 30 down 6 up connection. Generally run close to that unless it is a high traffic time of day. It will be this evening before i can hit you up. I want to go home and see where things are. Everything should be working but who knows?

I know that I may have some issues again if i am going to change those DNS numbers. We'll see.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 14, 2013, 11:10:53 AM
Ok, means that the 6120 is bonding 4 channels, probably on the down link and the PC link light means that the connection between the modem and 4500 is at Gb speeds. Thats good.

If you change anything on the router just be sure to reset the network settings on the 360's then power off. Don't set anything on them. Well you can input the HOST NAME to make it easier to see on the routers Network Settings page.  ;D. After you do the factory reset on the 360s, just turn everything OFF then make ur changes on the router. Once changes have been made and the router has been fully rebooted, then turn on the 360's. I would run a few power ON and OFF tests between each one to see how the NAT status comes out. Turn 1 on first, and check NAT. Then turn on the other and check NAT. Turn them both back off then turn ON the opposite 360 and check NAT. DO this a couple of times. NAT should be OPEN all around if the router is set up right.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 14, 2013, 12:58:22 PM
Try setting the DNS on the Xbox static to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. If anything at the ISP level would cause a NAT issue it would be DNS. Not like the ISP is blocking the ports, otherwise you would ALWAYS be that NAT, and it would be that way for the entire neiborhood. Also resetting the network settings clears the DNS cache and netsh, so be sure to do that before setting the static DNS
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 14, 2013, 04:16:41 PM
Since using global ports for my GF rules and disabling port specific rule for port 3074, I have yet to see either of my Xbox's with a moderate NAT.  I also use port triggering for my Xbox's.

Good luck with your set up guys.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 14, 2013, 04:25:27 PM
SO I got home and ran a few tests. With and with out DNS Relay. Both xboxes were OPEN NAT if powering either one ON using Specific Remote IPs.

So I figured all this DNS talk going on, why not re-run Name Bench to see if maybe there are newer custom DNS servers to use. Sure enough, it found a couple new ones. I input them into the manual Internet settings and rebooted the router. DNS Relay is OFF, GF and uPnP ON. Both xboxes are OPEN NAT. Was only able to play with 1 xbox however it was good gaming and ALL green bars in BO2.

None of the new DNS were Google related:  ::)
NTT
OpenDNS-3
Speakeasy Seattle US

Will give some time using these new DNS servers a try. This may have been an issue the other night when I saw Moderate NAT on my xbox while the other was OPEN.  :-\

I might suggest that drunkJug use NameBench to find some possible newer and faster working DNS servers to use for the 4500 and see if this might help some. You'll need to run Name Bench with a PC directly connected to the 6120. Takes about 5 minutes to complete the test.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 14, 2013, 04:30:36 PM
I just got in and am about to look at things. I migt hit you up here in a few Furry.

As far as namebench i have no idea what you are talkng about. :)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 14, 2013, 04:31:52 PM
http://code.google.com/p/namebench/ (http://code.google.com/p/namebench/)

I'm available for the next 45 minutes
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 14, 2013, 04:49:58 PM
Thanks again Furry. I ran that  namebench and it was taking forever and a day. Will have to run that on a saturday or something.  :-\
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 15, 2013, 06:56:26 AM
Ya it take about 5 minutes or so..shouldn't take anything over 10 minutes. At least thats what happend when I ran it on a Windows box.  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 15, 2013, 07:03:13 AM
Lol. I turned it off after about 40 minutes and it was nowhere near complete.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 15, 2013, 07:30:58 AM
Whoh, that shouldn't be taking that long.  ??? Your PC was connected directly to the ISP modem? 
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 15, 2013, 08:36:31 AM
Yessir. It most definitely was hooked straight into the modem.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 15, 2013, 09:06:39 AM
I'll try on my Mac Book Pro and see if there is any think I notice. I used Windows 7 and IE 9 yesterday. Took about 5 minutes to complete. Wonder if there is something going on there? Mac vs PC version of NB? Hmm. And your Mac is the only PC in the house?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 15, 2013, 09:11:54 AM
Yep. Apple to the bone. Almost hard to believe there is a couple MS XBOX's in my house lol.

All kidding aside maybe something on the name bench settings is incorrect. It went through a deal where it checked 4515 (or something like that) name servers (I think it was) using 40 threads at a time. It took forever. Then it immediately went back through them using only 6 threads at a time. The first run took almost 40 minutes. No way I was waiting over 6 times that long for this next round to complete.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 15, 2013, 09:15:35 AM
Did you have the first check box that had scan for Global DNS services? The first run I did, I didn't check this option, only had the best available regional check box. I used the default 250 queries and IE. I think the Data query source can vary.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 15, 2013, 09:20:05 AM
I think both boxes were checked. Also at the top it had automatically filled in the field box with the Open DNS numbers of 208.67.220.220 and 208.67.222.222
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 15, 2013, 09:30:43 AM
try removing the entries and the 1st check box and re-test.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 15, 2013, 09:31:52 AM
will try that when I get in tonight.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 15, 2013, 08:08:49 PM
Havent done that test yet. BUT I played gears last night and after the usual messing about i got bith consoles to show Open NAT. Turned off the systems. Came home tonight fired up My daughters and sh had Open and about an hour later i decided to play as well. Fired up my XBOX. Moderate. Shut down rebooted console. Open.

This is lame.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 16, 2013, 11:26:06 AM
Let us know if you can do the DNS test again...

There has some thing to be going on there. Both boxes are wired to the back of the router? Swap cables to see if the problem travels?

We played for a couple of hours last night. Granted, ether xbox was not powered down during this time frame. Both boxes had OPEN NAT. I can attempt to see if leaving one xbox ON and turning on the other later on and see.

The only thing I can think of after this, reload FW, factory reset and set up from scratch. You need to set the IP addresses ON the router to reserved for the xboxes and make sure they are setup  for automatic networking.

Let me know if I can help you with this again. Please try to get Name Bench testing done and we'll go from there.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 16, 2013, 05:01:31 PM
Why are you guys running namebench for a moderate NAT issues?  DNS servers will have no effect on NAT type.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 16, 2013, 06:29:54 PM
XS,

I don't know I am just going through all the steps that Furry thinks I need to do.

Do you have any idea why these ports are giving me such a hassle?

Furry,

Just ran the namebench test twice. It gave me different results each time ::)

At any rate I do in fact have both XBOX consoles wired straight into the router. I have a D-link 8 port switch
hooked up for other stuff but made sure both XBOX consoles went into the router itself instead of into that switch.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 16, 2013, 08:19:42 PM
Man I am about to give up.

Reset router to factory defaults and went in and edited all information by hand (leaving out certain things that don't apply to gaming just to see if they were causing any interference) and same old problems.

Booted up one console NAT is open, booted up second NAT is moderate, reboot second console NAT is open.

This is a huge PITA and at this point I think this router is not what it is cracked up to be.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: XS on March 17, 2013, 03:33:56 AM
This router should work out of the box fpr XBL with open NATs for all XBOX's.
So try this!
1.  On the router Restore all settings to the factory defaults.
2.  Set all devices on your network to auto obtain IP
3.  Reserve all IP address on router for each device.
3.  On firewall settings, set NAT ENDPOINT FILTERING to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP.
4.  Uncheck boxes for enable SPI and Enable anti-spoof checking if checked
5. APPLICATION LEVEL GATEWAY (ALG) CONFIGURATION: All checked.
6.  Under game fuel menu, enable GF, auto uplink and auto classification checked, dynamic unchecked.
7.  Select cable if you have cable or select DSL if you have DSL.

Save config at every prompt and then reset router when all finiished making changes.

Reset modem then router.

If still having NAT issues with no manual GF rules then I would suspect something going on with your modem.  IF all good after this then we can add some manual GF rules to your Xbox's.


Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: RocNrolla on March 17, 2013, 06:30:06 AM
Man I am about to give up.

Reset router to factory defaults and went in and edited all information by hand (leaving out certain things that don't apple to gaming just to see if they were causing any interference) and same old problems.

Booted up one console NAT is open, booted up second NAT is moderate, reboot second console NAT is open.

This is a huge PITA and at this point I think this router is not what it is cracked up to be.

I was having the same issues with the Dir-857, I switched back to the 4500 doing a factory reset and reserving ip addresses on the 4500. All I have is Upnp enabled and I get open NAT on 3 Xbox's all the time. With the Dir-857 I was having the exact same issues as you are having with the 4500. Gamefuel didn't work for me either on the 857. One xbox would always have moderate NAt, as soon as I re-booted that xbox NAT would change to OPEN.

In my opinion... I believe your 4500 and modem are not playing nice with one another just like my DIR-857 wasn't playing nice with my modem (Cisco DPC3825 DOCSIS 3.0 Gateway)(in bridge  mode)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 17, 2013, 10:45:21 AM
XS, would you take a look at Drunkjugs router settings and go throught the motions to see if you can help him attain stable OPEN NAT on his xboxes? See if you can help him narrow down any configuration issues.

I am starting to wonder if there are some modem issues here. The only thing that I could think if is maybe the ISP. He and are currently running the same modem and 4500 HW. The only thing different is the ISP service. Possible there could be something going on with modem, modem FW or ISP service.


Drunkjug, the only thing i can suggest would be to either test both a different modem and router to see whats going on. I would say test the router at a different location however that would entail taking all xboxes too. Thats not a good thing. So I would go to your local store, some place that has a good refund policy and get a different router, try a DIR series router, something you can test for 30 days before you have to decide to keep or return it.

I would offer you to send me your 4500 during this time frame to see if our 4500 issues follow at a different location. I would like to help you eliminate and narrow down that root cause. I don't think the 4500 is at fault. One way to test this is at a different location.  ::)

Your seeing some odd things going on there. Name Bench for me always seem to bring up the same 3 or 4 addresses doing a couple of tests. Didn't vary at all. Your seeing different addresses per each test? I might think something is going on there with that. If the ISP service and modem and lines are good, addresses should change, if they do, no much if at all.

Lets see what XS can do with a review.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 17, 2013, 10:47:39 AM
I wonder if there is a problem between the 857 and your ISP service and or modem Rolla? I have the 857 and use a Motorola modem here and haven't seen this issue when my 857 is online with 2 xboxes. Any chance you can test this out at a different location or have someone review our router settings with you?


I was having the same issues with the Dir-857, I switched back to the 4500 doing a factory reset and reserving ip addresses on the 4500. All I have is Upnp enabled and I get open NAT on 3 Xbox's all the time. With the Dir-857 I was having the exact same issues as you are having with the 4500. Gamefuel didn't work for me either on the 857. One xbox would always have moderate NAt, as soon as I re-booted that xbox NAT would change to OPEN.

In my opinion... I believe your 4500 and modem are not playing nice with one another just like my DIR-857 wasn't playing nice with my modem (Cisco DPC3825 DOCSIS 3.0 Gateway)(in bridge  mode)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 17, 2013, 11:22:31 AM
wow i posted earlier and it didn't show up  :o

I tried what XS said and guess what? It works!!!!!

I am thinking something on comcast doesn't like me using static IP's. That is the only difference going on here is that I am using DHCP with DHCP Reservations.

It is a PITA for me to reset up everything this way but  I DON"T CARE, IT IS WORKING!!!1 :D

THANKS SO MUCH EVERYONE FOR THE HELP!
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 17, 2013, 11:24:27 AM
Static IPs as using them on the xboxes? I Thought we had set up IP reservations on the router for these xboxes during my first visit? Just what to make sure we understand what you have configured. Glad it's working though. Finally!  ::)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 17, 2013, 11:49:31 AM
No we never set up DHCP Reservations.

It is consistently working now !😄
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 17, 2013, 11:51:21 AM
Awesome. Glad its working now. Enjoy. This problem is finally resolved. Yay.  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 17, 2013, 12:09:31 PM
Wow. 9 pages later lol

Seriously, I want to thank everyone for your help.

Just think that 5500 is coming out soon....... ;D

Hoping some of this hair I have pulled out will grow back.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 17, 2013, 12:12:13 PM
It will, or get that much grayer. Now maybe you can game some now. You play BO2?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 17, 2013, 12:37:26 PM
nope. I am a gears head. Big time gears head. It is the only game I play online and the only real reason I own a XBOX. I find my PS3 has much better exclusives.

Still not sure if I am buying Judgement. They made some really stupid changes to the multiplayer in that game.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: Hard Harry on March 17, 2013, 01:26:02 PM
Yea, GOW is just about the only FPS I can still play. Everything else just gets me frusterated. I think its because with Horde, it more about cover and stradigy, and there isn't that same negative undertone you get with PvP. Horde is PvE kind of.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 17, 2013, 01:31:27 PM
I play the versus multi. Don't care much for Horde. I like the unpredictable aspect of playing real people.

I do not however like the unpredictable aspect of the poor net coding by the people at EPIC games. Whoever is in charge of that should be shown the door :(
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 17, 2013, 03:24:15 PM
You should now be able to input some custom DNS addresses in and turn OFF DNS Relay if you want to see how that handles. Remember to save off your routers configuration to file.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 17, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
already ahead of ya. :)

Thanks Furry. I think this is running about as good as it is going to get. I am very happy at the moment. :)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 17, 2013, 07:36:30 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 17, 2013, 07:57:24 PM
You all should pick up gears and come play with me sometime. 😁
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: FurryNutz on March 18, 2013, 07:03:24 AM
You could come play BO2 wif us too...  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's
Post by: DrunkJug on March 19, 2013, 03:39:10 PM
Happy to reply everything is still working as it should. Once again a big thank you to everyone for your help.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 20, 2013, 07:51:27 AM
Glad it's working well for you now. I can now remove my 4500 from service and go test other routers out now.  ;D

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on March 20, 2013, 07:57:46 AM
lol. Didn't mean to bogart everyone else :)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 20, 2013, 08:06:00 AM
Thats OK Sweeeet Haat  :P
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on March 20, 2013, 08:11:30 AM
What router do you generally run? I would think that the 4500 would be the one to use if you game. I haven't seen any other router that has made me want to bite. That 5500 is looking sweet though. I will be very interested in it when it hits.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 20, 2013, 08:28:04 AM
I run several actually. Test gaming, wifi and functionality on a end user basis and problem reproduction. Also gain the experiences with all the different features.

Ya, 4500 was good while online. I was impressed with the 825 and recently the 826L. I'm not impressed with the 601 series. And thats mostly due to marketing I think and it being a single or limited user and feature kind of router. It does work well though. Doesn't work well for multiple gaming platforms due to the custom QoS rules not being included. Over all the other 6 Series routers work well for gaming.

We are all hoping that the 5500 will be as good or even better than the 4500. Only thing that can hold a candle to the 4500 is the 8 series routers.  ::)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: Hard Harry on March 20, 2013, 02:46:01 PM
Only thing that Dlink makes that is. ::grin::
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 20, 2013, 04:22:08 PM
 ??? in reference too?

Only thing that Dlink makes that is. ::grin::
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: Hard Harry on March 20, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
In reference to

"We are all hoping that the 5500 will be as good or even better than the 4500. Only thing that can hold a candle to the 4500 is the 8 series routers. "

Don't get me wrong, I like Dlink routers, or else I wouldn't be here. Buuuuut...I don't they are the King of the Hill anymore.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 21, 2013, 07:04:05 AM
To each his own.  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on March 21, 2013, 07:05:31 AM
aww man I was about to grab some popcorn :)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 21, 2013, 07:10:11 AM
He's an ASUS guy.  :P
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on March 21, 2013, 07:16:49 AM
are their routers good? I always thought their PC's were kinda low end but then again I don't keep up with PC's really. Mac guy here.

Not because I am a snob I have just always used them in my line of work (commercial art).
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 21, 2013, 07:29:58 AM
He seems to think so. I had a chance to look over the UI on on of his. Nice. Never had a chance to put one online yet. DLink (maybe) not king of the hill however do just fine IMO.

Mac Guy here too.. I'll post a question in the OT thread...

Not a snob here either but they do work well. Until Yesterday.  :-\
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on March 21, 2013, 07:34:31 AM
ha! what happened? I used to do pretty well with all my friends asking me to fix their macs. Then OS X came along and I don't hear from anyone any more because they just hum right along.

I haven't had a computer issue in a long long time. (knocking on wood)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 21, 2013, 07:38:28 AM
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=14472.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=14472.0)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: Hard Harry on March 21, 2013, 03:19:39 PM
Your a Mac guy and you don't use a Airport? For shame. ::grin:: And yes, Macbooks are very nice laptops. I have nothing against Mac hardware, its just business practices of locking things down and taking away control I don't like. They see it as a trade off, better quality control if they can reduce variables. But as the quote goes "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

As for Asus routers and comparing them to Dlink routers, its no contest. Look at the data, check out Tom's Hardware and Smallnetbuilder, look at the feature sets. Heck, open one up and look at the build quality. Look at the PCB and the chipsets and the heat sinks. Asus makes motherboards and its pretty easy to say they make the best ones on the market. The qualities that make a good motherboard easily translate into a good router. I am not saying Dlink couldn't make a better router, I am saying they have decided to not to. They are aiming for a different part of the market because there is more profit there. They are cutting corners. Thats why they use internal antenna's now, thats why they have limited support, reduced firmware releases, etc. There doing exactly what Linksys did moving from the WRT54G to the WRT120N. And thats why WRT54G are still being used to this day, 10years later, while WRT120's are in the trash.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on March 30, 2013, 11:41:22 AM
nice info on the asus routers without being derogatory towards us dlink owners. do they have anything like gamerfuel?

i used to run airports but found them extremely limited and a huge pain in the ###. :)

I have been running well but have had a single issue since last time i posted. The other day no matter what i did both XBOX's were stuck at moderate. eventually ended up solving it by reseting the network setting to factory defaults on both consoles. Nothing wrong with the router this time :)

Any ideas why the XBOX's would freak out like this when everything has been running so smooth?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 30, 2013, 11:56:22 AM
The one time I used my 3rd gen AE was pretty good and impressed on gaming. Always green bars in the games. I haven't tried with 2 xboxes since or I can't remember if I had. I might have. Ya, setting up and configuring networking addresses seems like a pain and constrained by only a few class IP address ranges, 192, 10 or 172 I think. Not much QoS configuration options either.  ::)

Been noticing moderate NAT on my system here, just last nite and I'm not even using a DLink or the AE, testing a NG 3700 out. ::) My roommate was already online playing when I signed into BO2. Played a couple of games before I noticed NAT was Moderate. I to factory reset the network settings on my xbox and power cycled it. NAT was open after that. Makes we wonder if recent xbox updates have done something to the networking system on the boxes. I set the 3700 for same Global ports we use on DLink routers and reserved IP addresses for the boxes was about it.

Any ideas on this Harry?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: hyelton on March 30, 2013, 12:18:15 PM
The one time I used my 3rd gen AE was pretty good and impressed on gaming. Always green bars in the games. I haven't tried with 2 xboxes since or I can't remember if I had. I might have. Ya, setting up and configuring networking addresses seems like a pain and constrained by only a few class IP address ranges, 192, 10 or 172 I think. Not much QoS configuration options either.  ::)

Been noticing moderate NAT on my system here, just last nite and I'm not even using a DLink or the AE, testing a NG 3700 out. ::) My roommate was already online playing when I signed into BO2. Played a couple of games before I noticed NAT was Moderate. I to factory reset the network settings on my xbox and power cycled it. NAT was open after that. Makes we wonder if recent xbox updates have done something to the networking system on the boxes. I set the 3700 for same Global ports we use on DLink routers and reserved IP addresses for the boxes was about it.

Any ideas on this Harry?


The NG 3700 was pretty good, AFTER I loaded DD-WRT on it haha, The Version I had, had NO QOS which sucks cause I upload a ALOT with only 2 meg upload speed so it kills the entire internet and causes gaming lag.  But DD-WRT fixed that problem quickly:) haha

I owned an Airport Extream once some of the best WiFi Coverage I`ve ever seen back in 2010 it was FAST! But at the time I only had a 6meg connection (All they offered at the time) and NO QOS once again lol) So I returned it.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 30, 2013, 12:21:59 PM
Ya I had loaded WRT on it and loaned it to my buddy down the road. I recently changed his router out for a DIR-825 so he's using that. I brought home the 3700 and changed back to OEM FW. Seems to be doing ok. I will like the configuration of DLink routers over NGs. Better customization of QoS with DLink than NG. Maybe all put the AE back online and re-test multiple xboxes.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: hyelton on March 30, 2013, 12:30:41 PM
I know the current WNR1000 is terrible! haha Its got a faster CPU better everything than the WRT54g v5 but the WRT54g still beats it!
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 11, 2013, 08:46:14 PM
I'm back!

Something is really wrong but not relating to XBOX now. Wireless speeds have been crawling. Called Comcast thinking it was them.

They had me hook directly to modem. BAM! pulling download speeds of 100+ Mbps and uploads of 20+Mbps

no problems actually twice as fast as it should be.

Hook router back up and I get 15Mbps down and 19Mbps up wireless. Hook a ethernet cable into router and computer get my 100+Mbps down but only 1Mbps up.


EDIT:
Figured out what was going on. Wireless was just acting flaky. Changed the settings a few times and it started working properly again. Wish all my wireless items would work on 5GHz N only. Big difference but alas I have nintendo products that are in the dark ages (even their newest console).

That being said I had to go into Gamefuel settings and manually type in to the uplink speed 30000 to get my full uplink Mbps. I previously had it set to obtain automatically and it was reading in at 3000 and was severely limiting my uplink rate when Game Fuel was on. That is a BIG problem. Affected both wireless and wired uplink speeds.


Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 07:30:22 AM
Whats the ISP Speed UP and Down that you pay for?

One think you might want to think about, since the 4500 wifi is a either or router on Wifi, you might set the 4500 to 5Ghz and use that radio for devices that support 5Ghz, then get you a 2.4Ghz wired AP to broadcast 2.4Ghz for those devices that need 2.4Ghz radio or vs versa by using the 4500 as your 2.4Ghz wireless radio and get a AP that does 5Ghz radio then upgrade those devices, that can be upraded to 5Ghz:
Bridge Mode vs Relay vs Acess Point (AP) / Routers vs Dedicated Acess Points (AP) (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=50738.0)
For suggestions...
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 07:59:25 AM
I pay for 50 down and 10 up  :D so I am getting twice the speed I am supposed to be receiving. I'm not complaining.

I am going to check into that suggestion. But if that DGL 5500 would hit the market I could solve that issue pretty easily ;)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 08:12:50 AM
Thats true...then you could use the 4500 as an AP.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 08:54:20 AM
Would I need to use the 4500 then? I thought the 5500 was going to have a true dual band that runs simultaneously.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 08:59:37 AM
Run the 4500 in AP mode as a range extender maybe. Or keep it as a back up router should something happen.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 09:01:21 AM
Or keep it as a back up router should something happen.

That sounds like the ticket. But who knows when that 5500 is going to hit? Thought it would be out by now.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 09:10:54 AM
Spring just hit so between now and the end of spring I presume.  :-\
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 09:18:02 AM
might be the first time in my life I look forward to summer? ???
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 09:41:53 AM
Spring and Summer are my favorite seasons.  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 09:43:03 AM
but all the good games come out fall/winter  :D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 09:55:41 AM
Then you'll be ready for this coming Fall and Winter sir.  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 01:30:03 PM
just wanted to be clear once again that the automatic uplink speed detection did not work. You might want to test that and maybe add that into the FAQ that it may need to be manually set in some cases .
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 01:33:38 PM
Thats probably due to this:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=46674.msg175611#msg175611 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=46674.msg175611#msg175611)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 01:45:33 PM
so is it going to cause issues because I manually set the value higher?
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 12, 2013, 01:54:20 PM
Shouldn't, no. It's the Automatic UPlink that has this limiation on 2Mb UP link speeds. If Manual is set, the router should work at the higher up link speed.

I'm right on the board with this one as I'm at 2Mb on my ISP and they don't offer anything faster.

I do know that the newer DIR series routers from the 645, and the newer L series routers have higher preset UP link settings unlike the older routers. I guess at the time, there wasn't any or maybe there way some forethought about Automatic UP link speeds since at the that time, average users only has about that much from there ISPs. Now everyone is going well beyond that and not sure if DLink thought about that or not. There is some debate on if the cap is really needed or not. Over all, for those that have more than 2Mb or and higher UP link speeds, and your using a older generation router, disable Automatic UP link if users are seeing problems.

I'll update the stickies this weekend. Raining here so not much to do beside do some gaming.  ::)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 12, 2013, 02:06:40 PM
Cool.

Hopefully it works out because I did not do any gaming last night. Been feeling pretty good about my setup until I was getting such a unbalanced wireless connection. Kinda weird that for no reason I was getting faster upload than downloads.

They adjusted my modem and in turn the router proceeded to freak out.

weird thing was that power cycling the router didn't fix the issue. Had to change the wireless reboot and then change it back. Couldn't get the upload speed to work correctly until I manually set it after the router freaked out. Which was weird because it was set to automatically work and it seemed to be working and then it just went completely opposite.

Sure has been nice having Open NAT though   ;D
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: XS on April 12, 2013, 08:36:53 PM
I have Cox for my ISP with sustained up load speeds of 5meg, however my line has speed boost and this is what my 4500 measured once when set to auto uplink
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F181E4F48FF153F1!190&authkey=!AKws4qWL11DKsr8 (https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F181E4F48FF153F1!190&authkey=!AKws4qWL11DKsr8)
(https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F181E4F48FF153F1!190&authkey=!AKws4qWL11DKsr8)

However I use my sustained speed of 5meg and enter it manually so QoS can work how it is supposed to.

Drunkjug,
I am happy your NAT issues is resolved! 8)  Also use this program to get your true upload speeds and enter shaping value in the manual upload box so QoS will work correctly.
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~partha/diffprobe/shaperprobe.html (http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~partha/diffprobe/shaperprobe.html)
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 14, 2013, 09:23:46 AM
XS,
I tried running that program and I am not sure if I got it right or not.

I am not sure what in the world is going on with my Wi-Fi connection. I have to set my network up for 2.4 Ghz N and G.

I am getting faster upload speeds than download and no matter what I do I can't get it to work otherwise UNLESS I switch to 5Ghz wireless N and at that point I can consistently get around 60-70 Mbps down and around 20Mbps up.

It is worth noting that unless I switch to 5Ghz N my speeds are all over the place. The only constancy on anything other than the 5Ghz is the fact that the uploads are always faster than my downloads.

Pulling my hair out over here....again
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on April 14, 2013, 09:52:47 AM
Drunkjug, please make a new post and thread for this wireless issue please as you have moved the problem from the OP. Thank you.
Title: Re: Issues with NAT and 2 XBOX's (RESOLVED)
Post by: DrunkJug on April 14, 2013, 11:16:17 AM
no problem. I was wondering if I should do that or not.

I am going to continue to try and solve this. If I can't figure something out I will start a new post.