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The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers => DIR-865L => Topic started by: Svuppe on February 18, 2013, 12:23:17 PM

Title: Very bad routing performance (solved)
Post by: Svuppe on February 18, 2013, 12:23:17 PM
Hi.
I have just acquired a DIR-865L to replace my old DIR-855.
Unfortunately, I have now switched back. While the new router improved my wireless coverage and speed, the routing to/from the internet was horrible.

I have a 50/50 Mbps line, and my old 855 gives me this result in a speedtest:
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2517685937.png)

Switching to the 865L (having as identical setups as possible):
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2517629717.png)

Not quite the result I expected. These tests are made from my stationary PC, which is connected by a cable, not wireless.

My ISP is Sagitta.dk (formerly Broadcom), delivered with a lan cable.
QoS and traffic shaping are disabled.
No network filters. No access control. No website filters. No inbound filters.
I have tried to loosen up on nat endpoint filtering. No effect.
I have disabled SPI and anti-spoof checking. No effect.
IPv6 is disabled.
Firmware is the newest (1.03).

What else can I try? I really would like to use my new router, but not when I only get a fraction of my internet connection.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 18, 2013, 12:32:02 PM
Link>Welcome! (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=41537.0)
What region are you located?
Are you wired or wireless connected to the router? Are you speed testing wired or wireless? It's not recommended to speed test over wireless as results vary and are not accurate sometimes.

Has a Factory Reset been performed before and after updating FW. Was originally came loaded on this router out of the box? Was it tested before updating FW?

Check ISP MTU requirements, Cable is usually 1500, DSL is around 1492 down to 1472. Call the ISP and ask.

Some things to try: - Log into the routers web page at 192.168.0.1. Use IE, Opera or FF to manage the router.
Turn off ALL QoS (http://vonage.nmhoy.net/qos.html) or Disable Traffic Shaping (DIR only) GameFuel (DGL only and if ON.) options. Advanced/QoS or Gamefuel.
Turn off Advanced DNS Services if you have this option under Setup/Internet/Manual.
Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking.
Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking. This ensures each devices gets its own IP address when turned on and connected, eliminates IP address conflicts and helps in troubleshooting.
Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
If IPv6 is an option on the router, select Local Connection Only or Disable IPv6 options under Setup/IPv6.
Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall.
Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming under Advanced/Networking. Disable uPnP for testing Port Forwarding rules.
WAN Port Speed set to Auto or specific speed? Some newer ISP modems support 1000Mb so manually setting to Gb speeds can be supported by the router. Advanced/Advanced Networking/WAN Port Speed
Set current Time Zone, Date and Time. Use an NTP server feature. Tools/Time.

Turn off all anti virus and firewall programs on PC while testing. 3rd party firewalls are not generally needed when using routers as they are effective on blocking malicious inbound traffic.
Turn off all devices accept for one wired PC while testing.

I certainly get 50/2 speeds with my 865L however I have Cable and use a Cable modem with the 856L thats loaded w v1.01 FW out of the box.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 18, 2013, 01:26:40 PM
Link>Welcome! (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=41537.0)
What region are you located?
Are you wired or wireless connected to the router? Are you speed testing wired or wireless? It's not recommended to speed test over wireless as results vary and are not accurate sometimes.

Has a Factory Reset been performed before and after updating FW. Was originally came loaded on this router out of the box? Was it tested before updating FW?

Check ISP MTU requirements, Cable is usually 1500, DSL is around 1492 down to 1472. Call the ISP and ask.

I am in Denmark (northern Europe).
I am (as I wrote) wired to the router. Also when testing.
The firmware was updated from 1.01 to 1.03. I did test it on 1.01 also, getting equally bad results. Hence the upgrade to see if that solved it. Unfortunately not. And yes, I did a factory reset and set up the config again by hand. Not loading a saved config.

MTU is 1500, and is confirmed to be correct by my ISP. The old router (that works) also has the MTU at 1500.

I have tried all the other tips, but without any improvement. I may be able to borrow a DIR-857 tomorrow. I will report back if/when I have tested that one.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 18, 2013, 01:31:48 PM
OK, if the 857 improves the test, I would either return the 865L to the place of purchase and get a new one or phone contact DLink support and ask for an RMA.

Did you get the v1.03 FW from DLinks Demark site?

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 20, 2013, 01:05:43 AM
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to borrow a 857 yesterday. Perhaps I can one of the coming days.
But I did some other tests on my 865L.

First I set it up on an isolated mini-net. One Linux server was acting as the WAN, delivering DHCP information to the router, so it thought it was connected to the outside world. And another PC as a client on LAN. Both wired with Gbit cables and netcards.
Then I performed several iperf tests, both TCP and UDP, to evaluate the routing capacity of the 865L. This revealed that the router is capable of routing plenty of traffic. TCP maxed out the gigabit network with sustained transfers of over 920 Mbit/s. UDP was only able to get 170-180 Mbit/s, but that is still plenty.

Then I connected my 865L WAN side to my old 855 routers LAN side, so I now had two routers in series. I know, this is not what one should do, but it worked. Using a PC on the 865L LAN, going through both routers, I performed a speedtest, and now I got around 43 Mbit/s in both directions.
Eliminating the 855, and just using the 865L, and the very low speeds were back.

This tells me that the 865L works fine, but there is something with the connection from my ISP to the 865L that makes it drop its performance drastically. Something that my 855 hides from the 865L when it is placed in between.

I'll see if I can get any closer to an explanation in the coming days.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Lexist2112 on February 20, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to borrow a 857 yesterday. Perhaps I can one of the coming days.
But I did some other tests on my 865L.

First I set it up on an isolated mini-net. One Linux server was acting as the WAN, delivering DHCP information to the router, so it thought it was connected to the outside world. And another PC as a client on LAN. Both wired with Gbit cables and netcards.
Then I performed several iperf tests, both TCP and UDP, to evaluate the routing capacity of the 865L. This revealed that the router is capable of routing plenty of traffic. TCP maxed out the gigabit network with sustained transfers of over 920 Mbit/s. UDP was only able to get 170-180 Mbit/s, but that is still plenty.

Then I connected my 865L WAN side to my old 855 routers LAN side, so I now had two routers in series. I know, this is not what one should do, but it worked. Using a PC on the 865L LAN, going through both routers, I performed a speedtest, and now I got around 43 Mbit/s in both directions.
Eliminating the 855, and just using the 865L, and the very low speeds were back.

This tells me that the 865L works fine, but there is something with the connection from my ISP to the 865L that makes it drop its performance drastically. Something that my 855 hides from the 865L when it is placed in between.

I'll see if I can get any closer to an explanation in the coming days.


 I had the same issue. Turn ON QoS and Traffic Shaping is now called Transmission rate. You need to MANUALLY select the up and down speed that your ISP has given you. Once I did that, the wired LAN speed was were it should be.

GOTO Advanced tab->QoS engine->enable QoS and select transmission rate.  ;D
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 20, 2013, 09:29:20 AM
Wow. I would never have thought of trying that (enabling QoS).
I can't try it right now, but I will as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 20, 2013, 10:17:39 AM
Isn't Transmission and QoS enabled out of the box? 
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Lexist2112 on February 20, 2013, 10:19:58 AM
Wow. I would never have thought of trying that (enabling QoS).
I can't try it right now, but I will as soon as possible.


I guarantee once you set the up and down transmission rate correctly BOTH your wired LAN and wireless will have the proper bandwidth and life will be good. Took me several weeks to figure it out. The default transmission rate speeds are LOW and that is why the router is not outputting the correct bandwidth.

This router out of the box is GREAT. Like yourself I have experienced much better wireless coverage and throughput in my house.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Lexist2112 on February 20, 2013, 10:25:02 AM
Isn't Transmission and QoS enabled out of the box? 

I can't remember if the default settings were enabled or not. Still one needs to "enable" QoS  and YOU NEED TO MANUALLY SET THE TRANSMISSION RATE TO YOUR CORRECT BANDWIDTH THAT THE ISP HAS GIVEN YOU. My transmission rate was set low and severely affected the band width by half!!!! both on the wired and wireless. Life is good now  :D
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 20, 2013, 12:53:43 PM
Can be noted that when setting the rates, you can set them for 1 value higher instead of exact value. Gives a bit of an over head and usually the router and modem maintain your paid limits.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: TimeShifter on February 20, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
QoS is not enabled out-of-the-box.  Actually mine is still disabled, but my rates look normal:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/2523245421.png (http://www.speedtest.net/result/2523245421.png)

Doesn't necessarily mean that it is working properly though.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Lexist2112 on February 20, 2013, 07:15:19 PM
This should be a sticky for newcomers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 01:12:08 AM
Unfortunately, that did not help me. Enabling QoS had some effect. Instead of 1.5 Mbit/s download, I now got 10 Mbit/s. But there is still a long way up to my 50 Mbit/s line. I then tried to increase the transmission rate (on the QoS page) to the double of my line, but the speed stayed at 10 Mbit/s.

I also tried a borrowed DIR-857 this morning, but it has the same issues.

Tonight I will see if I can monitor the traffic on both the WAN and LAN side of the router. If I can, I should be able to see any noticeable delays caused by the router.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 06:58:20 AM
If the 857 is exhibiting the same condition, I would presume that the problem lies elsewhere, up stream or down stream from the routers.

What ISP Modem make and model do you have?

I would factory reset the router(s), set up WiFi SSID info, Ensure Traffic Shaping or Transmission Control is enabled using default settings. Select the UP and Down speeds for Transmission Control. Enable QoS however you shouldn't need to set any rules up. Save settings and reboot the router(s).

Turn off all anti virus and firewall programs on PC while testing. 3rd party firewalls are not generally needed when using routers as they are effective on blocking malicious inbound traffic.
Turn off all devices accept for one wired PC while testing.

Run some speed tests from various sites:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48352.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48352.0)
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 09:33:58 AM
If the 857 is exhibiting the same condition, I would presume that the problem lies elsewhere, up stream or down stream from the routers.

What ISP Modem make and model do you have?
I agree that it looks like something elsewhere. Or something elsewhere in combination with newer D-Link routers. I have speed problems with the DIR-865L and DIR-857. But no problems with my current DIR-855 or a 655 (just tested).

I can't answer the ISP modem make and model, because I don't have any.
The entire block (about 250 apartments) has fiber from the ISP going into some big switches (and I don't know what make they are). From there each apartment gets a 100 Mbit lan cable.

I have tried the suggestions, but with no improvements.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 09:37:34 AM
Hmm, could be a possible issue between these new gen routers and your ISP services there.

Any chance you know of someone living in a house and not a apt complex that has broadband internet using a ISP modem, stand alone modem preferred, that you could take these routers to and test? Would be one other way to see how these routers work off your current ISP service situation.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 09:54:40 AM
I may be able to take it to a friend some day. I will definately try that when I am able to.
In the meantime, I have made some tests, while logging the traffic on both sides of the router. I am still digging into the logfiles, but I did find the equipment that is at the other end of my wan cable, as it announecd itself to the router.
It is a Cisco WS-C2950G-48-EI.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Lexist2112 on February 21, 2013, 09:56:07 AM
If the 857 is exhibiting the same condition, I would presume that the problem lies elsewhere, up stream or down stream from the routers.

What ISP Modem make and model do you have?

I would factory reset the router(s), set up WiFi SSID info, Ensure Traffic Shaping or Transmission Control is enabled using default settings. Select the UP and Down speeds for Transmission Control. Enable QoS however you shouldn't need to set any rules up. Save settings and reboot the router(s).

Turn off all anti virus and firewall programs on PC while testing. 3rd party firewalls are not generally needed when using routers as they are effective on blocking malicious inbound traffic.
Turn off all devices accept for one wired PC while testing.

Run some speed tests from various sites:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48352.0 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48352.0)

Agreed.

In addition, it might make a difference,  there are default QOS rules without any info in the priority, protocol and IP range. Uncheck ALL of those. Save your info and try again.

I agree with Furry that if you having the same issue with the 857, than quite possibly there maybe firewalls that may have become active. If your using Windows, you can uncheck the firewall, and let the router do all the firewall responsibility.

Let us know
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 10:00:17 AM
Thats a switch:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps628/ps3821/index.html (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps628/ps3821/index.html)

I see it's no longer in production as well.  :-\


I may be able to take it to a friend some day. I will definately try that when I am able to.
In the meantime, I have made some tests, while logging the traffic on both sides of the router. I am still digging into the logfiles, but I did find the equipment that is at the other end of my wan cable, as it announecd itself to the router.
It is a Cisco WS-C2950G-48-EI.

Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 10:04:05 AM
Do you get a public IP address from this connection? I presume you do?
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 10:09:45 AM
Yes, I get my public (and static) IP from it.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 10:24:09 AM
Ok, Something I think you can test out, would involve putting the 855 back online.
I'm thinking of having you do the following to both routers:
Turning a router into an AP. (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=40856.0)

Put the IP address you give to the routers into the DMZ on the 855 so that theres not 855 router processing anything coming and going thru the 855. Straight shot between the new 8 Series routers and the ISP service thru the 855.

Test the speed before putting the new routers on line with the 855. I presume the test should be good here. Once you get the new 8 series router(s) configured for wired AP and connected to the 855, wire 1 LAN pc to the back of the AP router, don't test wireless. Speed test to see what the results are.

About the only thing I can think of that you can do right now until you can take these 2 routers to a different location where there is a stand alone ISP modem to connect them to.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 10:48:16 AM
Put the IP address you give to the routers into the DMZ on the 855 so that theres not 855 router processing anything coming and going thru the 855. Straight shot between the new 8 Series routers and the ISP service thru the 855.
Test the speed before putting the new routers on line with the 855. I presume the test should be good here. Once you get the new 8 series router(s) configured for wired AP and connected to the 855, wire 1 LAN pc to the back of the AP router, don't test wireless. Speed test to see what the results are.
That test sounds almost as the test I did earlier.
I had the 855 as the first router (to my ISP), and then the 865 as another router on my LAN. I didn't reconfigure it to be an AP, but having two real routers, each doing NAT translation (yes, I used different address ranges on the two routers). Here I got full speed through both routers.

I can do the AP test, but in light of the other test, I don't think that will reveal anything new.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 10:51:34 AM
Oh, and it wasn't firewall problems either. I don't use a firewall in the first place, and disabling my antivirus made no difference.
I also tried a simple file-download on a Linux machine I have, and that was limited to the same speed as my regular PC.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 10:57:38 AM
Ok,
Was the 856L in the DMZ on the 855?
Did you change the WAN port speed on the new routers from Auto to say 10, then 100? What does your ISP support for the WAN port speed? Do you know. It's been 100 for a while and most new ISP Modems support 1000Mb so over here, I manually set the routers for 1000Mb.

Ok, seems like you have done some foot work here. Then the only other thing to test would be a ISP Stand alone modem at a different location. I presume and hope this will have positive results and presume it will probably point to the direction of there is a issue between your ISP service and this new gen routers.

I think after you can test at a different location, and what ever the results are, a phone support is going to be needed with DLink, ask for level 3 or higher support. Nothing level 1 or 2 can really do here. You, and information here in the forums have already covered that. If these routers work with a standard ISP stand alone modem, I really feel there is a problem between the ISP service and these routers. I would presume that maybe something on the ISP side could be at fault since it's older HW being used, however it would point also to the FW on these new gen routers  possibly not handling what ever the older HW connection are using.


Title: Re: Very bad routing performance
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 11:10:20 AM
No, the 865L was not in the DMZ.

But now you hit the nail on the head !!!  It was the WAN port speed setting.
I always had it on fixed 100 Mbps. I know the cabling going to our apartments aren't gigabit capable. The 855 works fine with this setting, so I just duplicated that in the 865. But switching it to Auto gives me all my speed in both directions.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2524963364.png)

And that is with SPI enabled, QoS enabled. Disabling QoS now gives a minor speed loss, but only a couple of Mbps.

Thank you very much for all your time spent resolving this. It is much appreciated.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 11:14:48 AM
Well after 2 pages I'm certainly glad we found the problem.  :o
And not to rub it in, however it was mentioned in my first #1 reply to check WAN port speed settings.  ;)

Awesome, well now maybe you can enjoy the 865L huh?

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance (solved)
Post by: Svuppe on February 21, 2013, 11:29:04 AM
Oh, do rub.
I know it was mentioned. I did believe I did the right thing setting it manually, as I've had problems with auto way back on my 655 router. But the symptoms then were quite different, as in a completely dead link. I never dreamt of putting it back to auto could solve this.

And yes, now I'll just enjoy this new router, and especially its way better performance/coverage on 5 GHz. Where I previously got a wireless link of 36 Mbps, I now have 108 Mbps.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance (solved)
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 12:02:27 PM
 ;D
Come back and visit and keep us posted on how it works for you.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance (solved)
Post by: Lexist2112 on February 21, 2013, 12:13:57 PM
Oh, do rub.
I know it was mentioned. I did believe I did the right thing setting it manually, as I've had problems with auto way back on my 655 router. But the symptoms then were quite different, as in a completely dead link. I never dreamt of putting it back to auto could solve this.

And yes, now I'll just enjoy this new router, and especially its way better performance/coverage on 5 GHz. Where I previously got a wireless link of 36 Mbps, I now have 108 Mbps.


Awesome!!!  It was WAN port settings..simple fix congrats. This is the router I have been looking for after trying many. Gonna keeps this one forever!!!!
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance (solved)
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 12:21:11 PM
Not going to get the new DGL-5500 when it comes out sir? Hehe.

Awesome!!!  It was WAN port settings..simple fix congrats. This is the router I have been looking for after trying many. Gonna keeps this one forever!!!!
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance (solved)
Post by: Lexist2112 on February 21, 2013, 01:55:19 PM
Not going to get the new DGL-5500 when it comes out sir? Hehe.


You're tempting me ;D I did see it at the CES show and it looks great, I like the new GUI interface and I think it will make things easier to setup for the average consumer. The question is will the 5500 be above and beyond better in terms of it's wireless performance?????

Already have a collection of routers, and several up for sale, it's a soft market out there  :-\, for now the 865l works wonderfully, just as I had expected of my other routers, clearly not the case. Thank god DLINK is still in the business of producing high quality routers. I am glad I came back to the DLINK community, and will not be purchasing any Linksys products in the future  ;)
Title: Re: Very bad routing performance (solved)
Post by: FurryNutz on February 21, 2013, 02:01:06 PM
Kewl, you got to see it in person. Looking forward to testing the 5500 soon. I Hope.  ::) We talked about a follow on to the 4500 a couple years back. Was told DLink wasn't going to. Someone must of got word of our chats. LOL. Ya, I hope wireless will be good. Hope the WiFi standard will be finalized and certified for AC as well.

I bet I have more routers that you sir. LOL.  :P

Glad your in the DLink family. Always good to know others and be apart of the community. Thanks for sharing and helping out.

Enjoy.