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The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers => DIR-857 => Topic started by: BiggShooter on January 18, 2013, 12:05:10 PM

Title: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: BiggShooter on January 18, 2013, 12:05:10 PM
I've been trying to figure out how to CONSISTENTLY obtain OPEN NAT with two xbox 360's on my network.  I currently have cable internet (20MB / 2MB).  

Here are my home network components:

Cable Modem: Motorola SB6140 (upstairs)
Router : DLink DIR-857 (upstairs)
Router (used as Access Point): DLink DGL-4500 (downstairs)
Switch 1: HP Pro Curve J9449A (upstairs)
Switch 2: HP Pro Curve J9449A (downstairs)

Here is the current network configuration regarding both Xbox 360's:

Xbox A (downstairs) has an IP address of .15 (wired) - ALWAYS OPEN NAT
Xbox B (upstairs) has an IP address of .16 (wired) - ALTERNATES BETWEEN MODERATE NAT / OPEN NAT

Xbox A (IP address of .15) is connected (wired) to my home network as follows:
*Xbox A connected (wired) to back of DLink DGL-4500 (LAN Port 2)
*DLink DGL-4500 connected (wired - LAN Port 1)  to back of HP Pro Curve (Switch 2)
*HP Pro Curve (Switch 2) connected to back of DLink DIR-857

Xbox B (IP address of .16) is connected (wired) to my home network as follows:
*Xbox B connected (wired) to back of DLink DIR-857

Here is the problem I'm having regarding NAT issues with two Xbox 360's connected to my home network (wired):

When playing COD BO2, powering on Xbox A first, followed by Xbox B, the following occurs:
Xbox A - OPEN NAT
Xbox B - MODERATE NAT

When playing COD BO2, powering on Xbox B first, followed by Xbox A, the following occurs:
Xbox A - OPEN NAT
Xbox B - OPEN NAT

I've tried every possible QOS configuration (DIR-857) in attempts to consistently obtain OPEN NAT on both Xbox 360's.  I've done PORT FORWARDING configurations (DIR-857) in attempts to consistently obtain OPEN NAT on both Xbox 360's.

Prior to upgrading to the DIR-857, I was using the DGL-4500 and had NO ISSUES with obtaining open NAT on both xbox 360's.

I have the latest firmware installed on both the DIR-857 and DGL-4500.  I've performed factory resets on both the DIR-857 and DGL-4500.  

What's mind baffling is the fact that the Xbox 360 (Xbox B) closest to the DIR-857, AND DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE 857, will go back and forth between OPEN NAT and MODERATE NAT, while the Xbox 360 that is "miles" away, and connected via an AP (DGL-4500) and SWITCH (HP Pro Curve J9449A) ALWAYS has an OPEN NAT, no matter what!!

I've attended the FURRYNUTZ school of networking (KUDOS FURRY for helping me expand my knowledge) and have a good grasp on home networking, but THIS ISSUE has me stumped!  Hopefully, with the help of the DLink forums and subscribers, you can help me get this issue resolved.

Thanks for your help :)
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: Hard Harry on January 18, 2013, 12:55:14 PM
Well first I would go into both Xboxs and perform these steps (http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/settings-and-initial-setup/clear-system-cache), and solution 1 from this site (http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live/connecting/error-cant-connect-using-static-ip-address-978975) on Both Xboxs and reboot B, then A and see if that works

If not, then I would suggest saving your DIR-857's configuration (Tool > System > Save Configuration) and then do a factory reset. Then reboot modem, then router. By default UPnP should be enabled. Now power Xbox B first, then A, and see if that fixes the problem.

If not, then your best bet is to use Port triggering, AKA "Special Application" in the router. Sounds like when Xbox A is requesting the ports from the DGL-4500 to the DIR-857, it locks them from the Xbox B from using. Basically they're fighting over the same ports. So disable (don't delete) any QoS and port forwarding rules you have related to the Xbox's and set up "Specail Application" with Trigger port UDP 88 and Firewall port TCP/UDP 3074. That should trigger 3074 to open for NAT on the firewall when ever either Xbox signs in with port 88. Then UPnP should take over the NAT. See if that works and let me know?
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: Hard Harry on January 18, 2013, 01:13:33 PM
Before trying any of that, try swapping the Xbox's, and see if the problem fallows the Xbox. That will tell us if its a Xbox issue or a router issue.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: RocNrolla on January 18, 2013, 06:16:35 PM
I'm Having the same issue with 2 Xbox's as BiggShooter. Both my Xbox's are directly wired to the 857.
If I turn on Xbox B first I get open Nat.
If I don't have an open Nat (moderate) a test network connection on the Xbox solves the issue.
I've  tried Port Triggering with the same results (moderate Nat if Xbox B turned on second).

I also have cable internet 35/3..... the 857 is connected to a cisco DPC3825 DOCSIS 3.0 Gateway (in bridge mode)
All my IP addresses are reserved in the 857

Just might go back to the DGL4500 and give up on the 857, or wait until the DGL-5500 comes out.  ;D
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: FurryNutz on January 19, 2013, 11:42:20 AM
What FW version is currently loaded?
Is uPnP enabled or disabled?
Is QoS rules set up as per Gaming and Gamefuel sticky?
If so, please post your current QoS rule settings.

I'm Having the same issue with 2 Xbox's as BiggShooter. Both my Xbox's are directly wired to the 857.
If I turn on Xbox B first I get open Nat.
If I don't have an open Nat (moderate) a test network connection on the Xbox solves the issue.
I've  tried Port Triggering with the same results (moderate Nat if Xbox B turned on second).

I also have cable internet 35/3..... the 857 is connected to a cisco DPC3825 DOCSIS 3.0 Gateway (in bridge mode)
All my IP addresses are reserved in the 857

Just might go back to the DGL4500 and give up on the 857, or wait until the DGL-5500 comes out.  ;D
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: RocNrolla on January 20, 2013, 07:17:40 AM
UPNP is enabled
Firmware version 1.03
no need for QoS, Xbox's are the only things on. (or am I wrong here?)

googled it and found many instances over the web that the DiR-857 isn't that good at handling two or more Xbox's Online at the same time. The only Two DLINK routers that Microsoft recommends for using 2 Xbox's Online at same time are the DIR-655 and the DGL-4500.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: RocNrolla on January 20, 2013, 07:34:33 AM
Still a great router....Just gotta make sure Xbox B is turned on Before Xbox A as biggshhoter also mentioned
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: FurryNutz on January 20, 2013, 09:13:58 AM
Anything w 2 or more high bandwidth traffic devices online at the same time should have QoS rules setup. My 857 works well w QoS and 2 xboxes. All my other routers work aswell. MS recommended list of routers is somewhat outdated.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: kargo27 on January 20, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
Furry and I worked on mine today.

I had a problem with my XBOX Slim holding a setting from when it was wireless, even though it was wired.

So I unplugged the Ethernet cable, went to System Settings/Network Settings/selected my wireless network/configure settings/reset to default.  Turned off XBOX, plugged the Ethernet cable back in booted it up and got OPEN NAT back.

A way to check if your XBOX is wired or wireless is by checking your 857's wireless status page.  My XBOX said I was "wired" but it really wasn't after all, even though the Ethernet cable was plugged in.

I didn't even realize my Slim was registering as wireless.  Furry pointed it out and now I know what to look for.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: RocNrolla on January 20, 2013, 03:10:15 PM
Thanks, will give it a shot.....I've had no problems other than the second xbox having a moderate nat if its turned on second, no big deal as it is quickly resolved by doing a network test  on that xbox and then it has an open nat.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: RocNrolla on January 20, 2013, 03:12:21 PM
Furry and I worked on mine today.

I had a problem with my XBOX Slim holding a setting from when it was wireless, even though it was wired.

So I unplugged the Ethernet cable, went to System Settings/Network Settings/selected my wireless network/configure settings/reset to default.  Turned off XBOX, plugged the Ethernet cable back in booted it up and got OPEN NAT back.

A way to check if your XBOX is wired or wireless is by checking your 857's wireless status page.  My XBOX said I was "wired" but it really wasn't after all, even though the Ethernet cable was plugged in.

I didn't even realize my Slim was registering as wireless.  Furry pointed it out and now I know what to look for.

This Xbox B I was referring to was once using a wireless connection.....I will test this out also
THANKS
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: FurryNutz on January 20, 2013, 03:15:51 PM
I tested out 3 different routers today including the 857 and could not get any MODERATE NAT on the xboxes using default out of the box settings or custom QoS.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: kargo27 on January 20, 2013, 09:02:32 PM
This Xbox B I was referring to was once using a wireless connection.....I will test this out also
THANKS

Hope it works for you, Roc.  I would try resetting both wired and wireless in your XBOX Network settings, then clear the cache just to be sure.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: RocNrolla on January 21, 2013, 11:34:32 AM
Thanks Kargo & FurryNutz...seems ok for now, will test better this weekend when both Xbox's have a copy of Halo4 in them and me (xboxB) and my 2 sons (XboxA) host some multiplayer with a few friends
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: FurryNutz on January 21, 2013, 11:38:08 AM
Keep us posted. If you want some review, let us know, maybe someone can review your router settings with you via Teamviewer.

 ;)
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: kargo27 on January 21, 2013, 02:47:05 PM
Hope it works out for ya, Roc.  I'm beginning to think that some crazy XBOX leftover configuration settings were what was jacking up my 857 and causing wifi and internet drops.  It's been solid since I cleared out those old xbox wifi settings.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles
Post by: BiggShooter on January 22, 2013, 01:21:27 PM
All seems to BE WORKING LIKE IT SHOULD.  I constantly have an OPEN NAT both Xbox 360's.  I RESET the NETWORK SETTINGS on both Xbox 360's as, at one time, both were connected wirelessly to my home network.

This might be a good thread to "STICKY". 

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!  Gotta love the DLink forums (and that DGL-5500 when it gets released)!
 
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 22, 2013, 01:36:38 PM
Glad you got it working. Ya I'll make this a sticky and archive it. Thanks for sharing.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: kargo27 on January 22, 2013, 04:21:02 PM
Good deal, man, congrats!  :)
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: RocNrolla on January 23, 2013, 05:58:34 AM
So I've set up QOS according to the Xbox live Sticky (thanks FurryNutz).
Cleared my system cache on actually 3 Xbox's and reset the Xbox network setting to default on all three Xbox's. All connect fine to Xbox live.
Testing with 2 Xbox's with a copy of halo4 in both (turning on XboxA then B this time around) I consistently get an open NAT.
Thanks Again FurryNutz, Kargo27, Hard Harry, and BiggShooter ;D
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 23, 2013, 06:41:37 AM
Enjoy.

So I've set up QOS according to the Xbox live Sticky (thanks FurryNutz).
Cleared my system cache on actually 3 Xbox's and reset the Xbox network setting to default on all three Xbox's. All connect fine to Xbox live.
Testing with 2 Xbox's with a copy of halo4 in both (turning on XboxA then B this time around) I consistently get an open NAT.
Thanks Again FurryNutz, Kargo27, Hard Harry, and BiggShooter ;D
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: kargo27 on January 23, 2013, 07:53:10 AM
Good deal, Roc.   ;)

Who would've thought that an XBOX would cause this weird router issue?  And what a weird issue at that, because it affects the router even when the XBOX is "off".

Mine has been stable also and I have gone through about 5 or 6 of these 857's, thinking it was a problem with the router, itself.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 23, 2013, 08:09:48 AM
Router Murderer!  >:(
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: kargo27 on January 23, 2013, 09:46:02 AM
Router Murderer!  >:(

 ::)
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 23, 2013, 09:53:54 AM
Bathing with any of your router lately sir?  :D
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: kargo27 on January 23, 2013, 10:04:40 AM
Bathing with any of your router lately sir?  :D

Just toasters! :D
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: kargo27 on January 23, 2013, 10:08:38 AM
Back on topic, this weird event with XBOX wireless doesn't happen with any other router brand I have.  It's specific to newer  DIR DLinks except the 865L and maybe an OLD Netgear.  I don't know if it's wireless N specific, either, never tested on G only.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 23, 2013, 11:08:28 AM
I'm also wondering if it could be related to the 11Mb Cap we are seeing with the Slims and these New Gen 8 Series routers.  ???
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: kargo27 on January 23, 2013, 02:32:23 PM
I'm also wondering if it could be related to the 11Mb Cap we are seeing with the Slims and these New Gen 8 Series routers.  ???

Could be.  Who knows when MS has done an adapter update?
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on January 23, 2013, 02:33:47 PM
You'd think however reading the XBL forum that Hard Harry posted links to, Its not only DLink routers seeing this cap. Other Mfr routers are exhibiting the same problem.

How to Reset Network Settings on xbox:
Settings/System/Network Settings
Choose Wired or Wireless
Choose Configure Network
Choose Additional Settings
Select Restore to Factory Defaults
Select Yes, restore to factory defaults when prompted
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: Hard Harry on January 23, 2013, 02:53:52 PM
Well I still think its a non performance bug. That the router is just mis-identifying the connection rate. But we will seeeee...
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: Hard Harry on January 23, 2013, 07:53:36 PM
Not very likely. If they wanted to throttle bandwidth, say to decrease drag on their content backbone, they would do it on the backend, not at the CPE level. Another words, XBL would slow it down, not the Xbox itself. 
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: kargo27 on January 26, 2013, 08:45:45 AM
Not very likely. If they wanted to throttle bandwidth, say to decrease drag on their content backbone, they would do it on the backend, not at the CPE level. Another words, XBL would slow it down, not the Xbox itself. 

Harry, you sure know your stuff!  I love learning about this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: Hard Harry on January 26, 2013, 08:57:04 AM
Well what I mean is I don't think their doing it on purpose. Don't get me wrong, like what someone said on the other thread, it could just be a cheap wireless card in the Xbox. What I don't get is why it would only effect a certain line of routers. Maybe the Wifi N standard was changed, and those new standards where integrated into the new line, and all lines of router by different manufactures using that standard. But again..I just feel like its something simpler, because if that was the case, were talking about a LOT of people effected (50K?). Think of how many DIR Series 8 were sold during Black Friday, and think of how many Xbox 360 slims were sold during Xmas.
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 24, 2013, 08:00:18 AM
Hows your 857 doing? Still have open NAT on all xboxes?

So I've set up QOS according to the Xbox live Sticky (thanks FurryNutz).
Cleared my system cache on actually 3 Xbox's and reset the Xbox network setting to default on all three Xbox's. All connect fine to Xbox live.
Testing with 2 Xbox's with a copy of halo4 in both (turning on XboxA then B this time around) I consistently get an open NAT.
Thanks Again FurryNutz, Kargo27, Hard Harry ;D
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: RocNrolla on March 26, 2013, 06:17:02 AM
Hows your 857 doing? Still have open NAT on all xboxes?


I switched back to the dgl-4500
with just Upnp enabled I get open NAT on 3 Xbox's all the time
I have to reset the 857 and do a clean firmware install...still haven't had a chance yet
however the 4500 is working great for me at the moment (you know the saying... if it ain't broke don't fix it)
Title: Re: Open NAT Issues With Two Xbox 360 Consoles (RESOLVED)
Post by: FurryNutz on March 26, 2013, 06:39:33 AM
Let us know what goes on with the 857. I just had mine online for about a week. Working great.

Theres one little trick that maybe we can show you that might help on the 857.