D-Link Forums

The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => Routers => DGL-4500 => Topic started by: squared on January 01, 2013, 12:39:10 PM

Title: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on January 01, 2013, 12:39:10 PM
I'm currently running 1.21NA which I believe is the newest for my revision.  I recently upgraded my fios to 50/25 from 20/5.  The wired computer gets ~56Mbps/~34Mbps on average, the wireless gets ~29Mbps/33Mbps on average.  Why is the upload higher?

The wireless computer uses a Rosewill RNX-N2X Wireless N Adapter.  When I check off "WMM Enable" (left disabled in the past), I get the full speeds like I assume should be the case because of N and the transfer speeds and blah blah.  This however gives me slight delay and random minor lag spikes every few minutes in all types of computer games.  All of my testing has been done with only the single wireless computer on the network, and is fine without having WMM on, but then my download speed is capped under 30 Mbps.  Signal quality always hovers above 85% and has always been perfect for years. 

I have turned on and off Short GI, Extra WP, changed channels, etc.

Just wondering if my choice truly is faster download speeds OR lag during games.  Any ideas?  ???
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 01, 2013, 04:22:06 PM
What Hardware version is your router? Look at sticker under router.

Link>Wireless Installation Considerations (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=48327.0)
What wireless modes are you using? Under Setup/Wireless/Manual.
Try single mode G or mixed G and N on 2.4Ghz and single mode N on 5Ghz?
Channel Width set for Auto 20/40Mhz or try 20Mhz only.
Try setting a manual channel to a open or unused channel. 1, 6 or 11. 11 for single mode N if the channel is clear.
What security mode are you using? Preferred security is WPA-Personal. WPA2/AES Only. Some WiFi adapters don't support AES, so you might want to try TPIK only or Auto.
What wireless devices do you have connected?
Any cordless house phones?
Any other WiFi routers in the area? Link> Use InSSIDer (http://www.metageek.net/) to find out. How many?

Turn off WISH, and WPS under Advanced.
Try turning off Short GI, WLAN Partition,and Extra Wireless Protection if you have it. Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.
Enable WMM Enable (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=50738.0) Under Advanced/Advanced Wireless.
Turn off all anti virus and firewall programs on PC while testing. 3rd party firewalls are not generally needed when using routers as they are effective on blocking malicious inbound traffic.
Turn off all devices accept for one wired PC while testing.

Some things to try: - Log into the routers web page at 192.168.0.1. Use IE, Opera or FF to manage the router.
Turn off ALL QoS (http://vonage.nmhoy.net/qos.html) or Disable Traffic Shaping (DIR only) GameFuel (DGL only and if ON.) options. Advanced/QoS or Gamefuel.
Turn off Advanced DNS Services if you have this option under Setup/Internet/Manual.
Turn on DNS Relay under Setup/Networking.
Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking. This ensures each devices gets its own IP address when turned on and connected, eliminates IP address conflicts and helps in troubleshooting.
Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall.
Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming under Advanced/Networking. Disable uPnP for testing Port Forwarding rules.
WAN Port Speed set to Auto or specific speed? Some newer ISP modems support 1000Mb so manually setting to Gb speeds can be supported by the router. Advanced/Advanced Networking/WAN Port Speed
Set Time and Time Zone under Tools/Time.

Actually v1.23 is the last and latest version however let us know what Rev HW your router is before thinking about updating.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on January 01, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
Its an A1, sorry should of mentioned that.

I've tried all the modes, but am currently using n+g mixed.

Tried changing channel width.

I've tried channel 1, 6, and 11.  1 is the best for me based on neighbors and line quality.  3 routers in the area but about 1% signal at best, two channel 11 one channel 6.

Using WPA Personal -> WPA2 and AES

Tried with just the wireless computer and no other devices.

No cordless phones.

WISH and WPS are off and never been used.

Gamefuel is off.

Used all combinations of the advanced wireless settings.

Test computer has no anti virus/anti spyware/firewall software.  Windows firewall disabled.

Advanced DNS off.  Tried DNS relay off and on didn't see any changes.

Both computers have reserved addresses.

Firewall settings are Endpoint Independent

UPnP has always been on.  Didn't notice any changes with multicast streaming on, currently off.

WAN port speed is set to AUTO.  Have not tried changing yet.

I changed the date/time.


I've done some searching on the forum so I tried most of the basics, still stumped :(
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 01, 2013, 08:53:20 PM
Well there was and issue with router hang on the A1s with v1.21. Doesn't seem like this is the case. You could update to v1.23 however lets check to see if changing the channels will help here first.

Ensure the wireless adapter drivers are up to date as well on the devices that use drivers.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on January 02, 2013, 05:00:20 AM
I already tried changing the channels and didn't see any different results besides slightly less signal strength.  The speeds still never pass 30Mbps down.  

Everything functions perfectly, no drops or connectivity issues with WMM off.  With WMM on there is also no drops or big issues, only the slight latency delays I spoke of earlier during games.  Browsing/Streaming/Torrenting function fine at full speeds (50Mbps+).

I have tried the built in auto-detect Win7 drivers for the adapter, as well as using the ones from the manufacturer, noticed no difference.

I don't understand why with WMM off the download speeds caps under 30 Mbps, yet the upload goes to 33 Mbps+ just fine.  I understand how WMM/QoS functions and why this could be causing my delays in games, however it seems like the only way to achieve better speeds wirelessly.


Edit:

This is with WMM OFF: (http://www.speedtest.net/result/2408454583.png)

Will add WMM ON somewhat soon currently running out the door.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 02, 2013, 12:14:28 PM
Are there any other wifi devices online while your gaming over WiFi?
I would recommend either not allowing other devices online while your gaming on Wifi?
I would recommend gaming on wired LAN if possible.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on January 02, 2013, 03:31:32 PM
Are there any other wifi devices online while your gaming over WiFi?
I would recommend either not allowing other devices online while your gaming on Wifi?
I would recommend gaming on wired LAN if possible.

Tested with no devices connected at all for hours, no improvement.

Of course I'd use wired, if I could, however it isn't possible due to the housing setup.  I guess I'm just out of luck with the router, time to move on, thanks anyway!
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 02, 2013, 03:37:31 PM
One thing you can do is to update the routers FW.

Does this happen w other devices beside the one. You need to test a different device to see it it does the same.
I would recommend taking the router to a friend or families place that are in a different location to see if the problem follows or not.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on January 02, 2013, 03:55:40 PM
I have 1 desktop and 2 laptops.  I have been testing with the wireless desktop mainly, and secondly with one of the laptops, the result is the same with both.  I mainly use the desktop because it is a freshly built PC with a new clean Win7 install.

I'm going to try the firmware.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 02, 2013, 04:03:33 PM
Please factory reset the router before sending the .bin file and do one more after. Then setup the router from scratch. I recommend testing the wifi before you confure the router after the last reset to see if the problem
is there.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 02, 2013, 04:08:36 PM
And please use IE browser for sending the update. Chrome has been know to cause problems.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 02, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Another item i remembered, disable all IPv6 options on the PCs. This router does not support IPv6 and have seen some issues with some PCs w it enabled.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on January 02, 2013, 07:23:00 PM
Another item i remembered, disable all IPv6 options on the PCs. This router does not support IPv6 and have seen some issues with some PCs w it enabled.

Just tried disabling IPv6, no effect.  Will be updating firmware as you stated tomorrow.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 03, 2013, 12:33:20 PM
Please follow: FW Update Process (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=42457.0)
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on January 05, 2013, 11:51:18 AM
One other thing to try if you have a 5Ghz supporting client, does this happen on 5Ghz single mode N only?
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on January 06, 2013, 07:47:23 AM
Sorry I haven't updated in a while been so busy.  I tried 5Ghz but the wireless adapter doesn't see the network even though it seems to have a 5Ghz band in the properties and whatnot.  I'm finally going to update the firmware later today so I'll keep my fingers crossed that something will magically happen
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on February 12, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
Any status on this?  ???
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on April 14, 2013, 08:07:56 AM
Unfortunately had some family emergencies come up so I haven't had time to deal with the router, things are back to normal now.  I updated to 1.23, no improvements that I've noticed.  WMM enabled still gives me the speeds I should be getting, but still gives intermittent lag spikes every few minutes while playing any type of game.

Followed the firmware update guide you posted, and barely changed settings before doing any testing.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: DrunkJug on April 14, 2013, 11:19:41 AM
if I were playing online games I would run a wired connection. Wireless is always going to have issues. I understand if it is not feasible but if possible I would ditch the wireless.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on April 14, 2013, 03:45:58 PM
if I were playing online games I would run a wired connection. Wireless is always going to have issues. I understand if it is not feasible but if possible I would ditch the wireless.

Thanks for this new and exciting information, friend.  If you actually read this topic you'd see the wireless is flawless except with WMM enabled.  WMM disabled is the cause of the download speeds being capped, but the upload speeds being much higher is strange to me.  I'd obviously connect all of my home's devices wired, if it didn't cost as much as a wedding to wire my 2 upper floors and basement.  I've loved this router for years, I just don't want to have to finally toss it :(
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on April 15, 2013, 11:07:09 AM
Where in relation is this router to the floors in your home?

I think the only possible reason you might be seeing these issues on the 2.4Ghz radio is due to interference for something or distance could be too far.

I don't think it would cost a great deal of money to wire up your home either.

One thing maybe you should review and research is maybe getting some D-Link Power Line products installed for those devices that don't need a lot of heavy bandwidth usage. Then if you can wire up those devices that do need heavier bandwidth load like downloading or gaming. I have had to wire up my existing house for LAN using these:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=52726.msg202260#msg202260 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=52726.msg202260#msg202260)
Again, these are not ideal however if you need a wire ran and out of the way, these work good.

I'm currently in the middle of a new addition to the existing house and ya, thats get all CAT6A installed. Hopefully soon.

I think you could even run a line on the outside wall from one floor to another and install a external Network switch and a additional AP up on the stop floor too extend range as well. I think there are some possibilities and still keep this router going for a long time. I still love my 4500. Works great man.

I am curious if you took the 4500 to a different location, say a friend or families place in same town, do you see this wireless problem?
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: squared on April 15, 2013, 05:36:37 PM
Where in relation is this router to the floors in your home?

I think the only possible reason you might be seeing these issues on the 2.4Ghz radio is due to interference for something or distance could be too far.

I don't think it would cost a great deal of money to wire up your home either.

One thing maybe you should review and research is maybe getting some D-Link Power Line products installed for those devices that don't need a lot of heavy bandwidth usage. Then if you can wire up those devices that do need heavier bandwidth load like downloading or gaming. I have had to wire up my existing house for LAN using these:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=52726.msg202260#msg202260 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=52726.msg202260#msg202260)
Again, these are not ideal however if you need a wire ran and out of the way, these work good.

I'm currently in the middle of a new addition to the existing house and ya, thats get all CAT6A installed. Hopefully soon.

I think you could even run a line on the outside wall from one floor to another and install a external Network switch and a additional AP up on the stop floor too extend range as well. I think there are some possibilities and still keep this router going for a long time. I still love my 4500. Works great man.

I am curious if you took the 4500 to a different location, say a friend or families place in same town, do you see this wireless problem?

All of my testing is within the same room, not on different floors.

Going to take it to a friends this week and try, will report back results.

Unfortunately I am unable to run the wiring outside and then back in (it's hard to explain without pictures of my home, believe me when I say it'll be a true project.)

Again though, with WMM disabled, I get perfect signal quality and speeds on every floor, if I enable WMM, I get the true speeds I should get, but with slight latency delays every 1-2 minutes.  This is noticeable more during gaming than say web browsing, however download speeds see a drop off at those times as well, but it catches back up.  It's obviously an issue with WMM, because with it off I haven't had a problem in years.  After updating to 50MB down instead of 20 MB down and be capped around ~25 wireless with WMM off, it just makes me sad that I can't have WMM enabled without any issues.

Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on April 15, 2013, 06:14:35 PM
Well I'm on a 50Mb Down and 2Mb up and my roommate played on the 5Ghz N only connecting with a 5Ghz wireless adapter. We didn't test 2.4Ghz. I presume we might not have see the same issues as you on 2.4Ghz radio. Gaming was great. I'm wondering if there is something on or near by that could be causing the lag on 2.4Ghz radio. Do you have any wireless gaming head sets by chance?
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: DrunkJug on April 23, 2013, 08:16:52 AM
I just solved this issue myself. I WAS having wireless problems. Good luck, "friend".
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: FurryNutz on April 23, 2013, 08:17:51 AM
And what did you do to solve your wireless problems?
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: DrunkJug on April 23, 2013, 08:43:25 AM
I treated people with respect and got the help i needed to point me in the right direction.

Since i am not a jerk and I try my best to treat people with respect i will post what worked for me as soon as our internet comes back up here at work and i can access the emulator.

If it works great and if not I can at least say i tried to help even though I was talked down to.
Title: Re: WMM Lag Spikes
Post by: DrunkJug on April 23, 2013, 05:08:14 PM
This is what worked for me. Your mileage may vary.

I used iStumbler (on Mac I am sure there is a PC equivalent) to see what other networks were close to me and what channels they were using and chose accordingly.

Under Advanced/Advanced wireless I checked the following.

WMM Enable
Short GI
Extra Wireless Protection

Under Advanced/Advanced Network I checked
Enable Multicast Streams

For the most part this has steadied my wireless connection. If I change any of the above my signal is terrible at best.

That being said I would still spend the money and time wiring my connection if I were serious about playing online and leave wireless to the phones and iPads etc.