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Eagle Pro AI => R15 => Topic started by: peharri on December 15, 2021, 12:48:45 PM

Title: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 15, 2021, 12:48:45 PM
So I've had the router(s) (I bought two, the second to use as an extender) operational for a week now and I love the feature set, and I've used D-Link routers before, and they were rock solid and supported everything I needed. So... I'm concerned.

First, the Wi-Fi seems... fragile to put it mildly. It stops working a lot. Trying to change the settings frequently results in something half of my devices won't connect to (doesn't matter what the settings are, ie I can put it in "Smart Connect" mode and everything will stop being able to connect, change the settings to something more micromanaged, and now nothing connects, and tweak the settings with something that shouldn't matter, and some things are able to connect, and then put it back into Smart Connect mode, and now everything connects. (For example, to give the last four configuration changes I made.)

When the Wi-Fi works, it frequently blacks out. The router is broadcasting SSIDs and it's broadcasting enough for my computers to think they're connected, but I can't ping anything - not the router, not the local network, not anything beyond the local network. Reconnecting fixes everything.

The connection issues affect everything. I have my Ubuntu laptop, a Chromebook, two Windows laptops, a Roku, and two Android phones, and they all have the same issues. None of these devices have had similar issues with the AP the R15 replaces.

Secondly: I've had to do a full (paperclip!) reset of the router once now because after turning on the Wi-Fi (after turning it off and using a different AP which had its own problems... or were they...) the router just went into a loop, constantly rebooting, staying up for about 30 seconds, and then rebooting again. This was the second time it went into the loop, but the first time it did it it at least stopped after about 30 minutes and became stable again. It's possible this is related to configuring the router before the two forced firmware updates, but I won't know unless/until it crashes again. It hasn't crashed (cross fingers) since the second time I configured it.

Thirdly: my home network already has a DHCP server. But the router won't save the setting to turn off its own  DHCP server. When I turn it off, it suspends the server, only to turn it back on if the router reboots for any reason - say, because the power got cut, or it crashed.) The router evidently saves some of the DHCP configuration: I changed the range to prevent it from giving out IPs already allocated to my VMs (I'm a software developer) and it saved that, but it didn't save the fact the server wasn't supposed to be on in the first place. So the router is a liability and can crash my network if I'm not supervising it when it comes up after any power outage (I saw it has a setting to let it reboot every night and laughed! No way!)

On another note, if I tell it I want to manage updates manually, is it too much to expect that setting be honored? Once this is in a stable state I don't want it updating without my permission. No, logging into the router is not consent to update!

I'm hoping these are all known issues and they're going to be fixed in the next firmware update, and indeed they're fixable in firmware. The DHCP thing seems like it would be. The crashes I'd hope will be. The Wi-Fi issues I'm concerned about, and worried they point at significantly deeper issues in the hardware itself.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: davevt31 on December 15, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
We have been saying for a while that this router is not ready for prime time.  Mine will forget the wifi password every once and a while.  Also when I do a reboot from the interface, it sometimes does not fully reboot and I have to power cycle it.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on December 15, 2021, 01:32:00 PM
Firmware 1.04 is coming out by end of the year so hopefully it will have fixed some issues. Thanks for the feedback. I will make sure the router group sees it.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 15, 2021, 01:38:33 PM
Thanks! Do we have any central place where we can find out what bugs D-Link is aware of and has plans to fix? A Bugzilla, Jira, or something like that?
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 15, 2021, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: davevt31 on December 15, 2021, 01:20:36 PM
We have been saying for a while that this router is not ready for prime time.
That's how I feel. I'm wondering if ax/Wi-Fi 6 equipment is just too new as other vendors seem to be having bad reviews from my searches.

That said, if they can fix the DHCP server issue I can always use a cheap AP (my old D-Link I used before maybe if I can find it!) for the Wifi until they fix it.

I know most people would return their stuff by now. I'm inclined to wait because of previous good experiences with D-Link. But I'd recommend anyone considering buying this hold off unless their network requirements are ridiculously simple, and they're happy to use another AP for the Wi-Fi.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on December 15, 2021, 02:13:17 PM
Unfortunately D-Link does not have a public "database" of reported issues. There is an internal one that D-Link offices around the world use which reports to the engineers/vendors. D-Link does listen to reviews from Amazon and other retailers so voices are heard. The "fix firmware" thing is time consuming and very expensive. A lot of hoops to jump through especially being global. Unfortunately reporting "wifi dropping" is near impossible to diagnose in a test lab since there are so many factors involved - clients, wifi quality, heat, humidity, environment (walls, floors, materials, etc), interference, settings on clients and the router, etc., but it has been reported and they will do the best they can to figure out the issue.

As far as WiFi-quality products, it is hard to pinpoint issues since most issues are not experienced by most users if that makes sense. I have been using the R15 at home for about 6 weeks (about 20 clients) and haven't had any issues (knock on wood). I have spectrum cable and cannot get IPv6 and the client list showing a bunch of "Unknown", but as far as performance goes my WiFi has been pretty good (again, knock on wood). My wife works from home with a 4 year old so at least 2 tvs/tablets are constantly streaming youtube and netflix all day every day. I don't know if I am lucky or if you and others on the forum are unlucky.

It is best with this router to let the firmware upgrade happen. Reset the router after the firmware update is complete and then set up. I do NOT like the auto-update since I like to have control of my router and the ability to downgrade if needed.  As far as the DHCP issue and the rebooting loop, I am not sure what is going on there. I will test the DHCP server issue later tonight.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 15, 2021, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: GreenBay42 on December 15, 2021, 02:13:17 PM
Unfortunately D-Link does not have a public "database" of reported issues. There is an internal one that D-Link offices around the world use which reports to the engineers/vendors. D-Link does listen to reviews from Amazon and other retailers so voices are heard. The "fix firmware" thing is time consuming and very expensive. A lot of hoops to jump through especially being global. Unfortunately reporting "wifi dropping" is near impossible to diagnose in a test lab since there are so many factors involved - clients, wifi quality, heat, humidity, environment (walls, floors, materials, etc), interference, settings on clients and the router, etc., but it has been reported and they will do the best they can to figure out the issue.

As far as WiFi-quality products, it is hard to pinpoint issues since most issues are not experienced by most users if that makes sense. I have been using the R15 at home for about 6 weeks (about 20 clients) and haven't had any issues (knock on wood). I have spectrum cable and cannot get IPv6 and the client list showing a bunch of "Unknown", but as far as performance goes my WiFi has been pretty good (again, knock on wood). My wife works from home with a 4 year old so at least 2 tvs/tablets are constantly streaming youtube and netflix all day every day. I don't know if I am lucky or if you and others on the forum are unlucky.

Thanks. Well cross fingers for the next firmware release I guess, if they release a beta I'll test it. on Wi-Fi: it can always be the local environment I guess, it could be the router is susceptible to certain types of local interference.

What I can say is the IPv6 part does work fine out of the box  with Comcast, who used to work with 6to4 and now use DHCP6 to provide ranges.

The issue with the DHCP server and the fact altering any Wi-Fi settings can result in a mess are probably the number one issue for me, and I assume those are easier to reproduce (the DHCP server one is easy. Turn it off. Reboot the router. It's on again!)
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 15, 2021, 02:52:56 PM
And just to confirm what I was saying about the Wi-Fi going weird if you change it over something seemingly innoculous:

1. I've been running it all day under a different SSID to the normal one with an old AP handing the original SSID There were a few issues with the R15, but I figured I'm not giving it a fair shot with another AP competing with it for spectrum. Anyway it was on Smart Connect, and everything was working fine.
2. I turned off the old AP, renamed the SSID (but changed nothing else) in the R15... and Wi-Fi goes bananas. Most of my devices won't connect. I'm getting 2000ms+ ping times pinging the router from my laptop and a huge number of dropped packets. I can't even access the R15's configuration screen from it (I need to use my wired desktop for that.)
3. I then turned off Smart Connect, resulting in the traditional two networks (2.4 and 5GHz) and... now most devices connect. Ping is still variable, but most of the time it's <5ms.

It's not Smart Connect, the network that was running all day with few issues was with Smart Connect on. It's something to do with when you change the wireless parameters on the R15. Weird.

According to the laptop, there are five other networks in range, including the Roku's remote control thing. All very odd.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on December 16, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
I verified the DHCP issue and reported it.

I've passed this thread to the router group and they are reviewing all the information. They will probably have questions so I will ask you when they come up. Obviously anything "personal" I will private message you.





Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 16, 2021, 02:06:00 PM
Thank you! That's awesome! Anything I can do to help debug the issues I will.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 17, 2021, 06:50:36 AM
So a little more data. I did some experimenting last night and this morning, comparing it to my old AP (a Netgear C3700 - basically a 'an' device with a built in cable modem - obviously that was disabled.) I did not use both at the same time except when testing the Netgear.

I had five devices I tested all with: a 4yo Roku, a 10 yo Dell Laptop, a 3 yo Acer Chromebook, a 4yo Android phone (Alcatel A50), and my 2yo Thinkpad. I used the Thinkpad as a "Everything is working as it should" test - that is, if I could connect with it, and ping without significant packet loss, I assumed the issue with the Wi-Fi often being unusable after a configuration change wasn't happening. I tried with both Smart Connect On, and with it off (two different SSIDs for the latter)

The results were:


DeviceC3700Smart Connect OnSmart Connect Off
Android PhoneNo issuesWon't connect, sees two SSIDsConnects to either SSID
RokuNo issuesNo issuesNo issues
ChromebookNo issuesWorked with some issues with some appsWorked with some issues with some apps
DellWorksWon't connect, sees two SSIDsWorks, connects to either SSID
ThinkpadWorksWorks but see belowWorks but see below

For the Chromebook, I have some Android games installed, and one would consistently reach 99% loading a new screen and then stop (this happened four times) which wasn't happening with the old router, so there's something odd happening but it's one of those hard to debug issues.

I'm getting conflicting results with ping times on the two laptops. Last night most ping times averaged about 50ms, with a wide deviation. This morning they're comparable to the C3700. Maybe it's that AI thing (yay it works! But... that old AP didn't have that feature and its ping times are generally better anyway....) or it might be there's less background Wi-Fi traffic from neighbors etc. I'm unsure.

One other thing: when the R15 was in Smart Connect mode, most devices showed it as one SSID. The Dell however showed my SSID twice, once as a secure network and one as insecure (it couldn't connect to either.) The Android phone was even weirder showing

<mySSID> (secure)
<mySSID>efault (insecure)

I'd like to run everything in Smart Connect mode, especially as the extender works best with it, but it sounds to me as if it's not quite ready for real world use. Or maybe it relies upon everyone having very recent Wi-Fi hardware? I'm unsure.

One positive: the signal from the R15 is way stronger than any other AP I've used before. I'm getting usable signals in parts of the house that I've never been able to reliably use Wi-Fi devices in before. So between that and the feature set I'm hopeful that firmware fixes can turn this into the perfect router. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on December 17, 2021, 12:02:02 PM
Thanks for the additional info.

Speaking of BETA firmware...  https://support.dlink.com/resource/PRODUCTS/R15/FIRMWARE/R15_REVA_FIRMWARE_v1.04B01_BETA.zip (https://support.dlink.com/resource/PRODUCTS/R15/FIRMWARE/R15_REVA_FIRMWARE_v1.04B01_BETA.zip)

BETA firmware to fix DHCP issue. Not sure what the other changes are but give it a try.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 17, 2021, 12:17:55 PM
Oh that's awesome! Thank you, I will try it tonight and get back to you.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: davevt31 on December 17, 2021, 02:27:04 PM
Downloaded the Beta will install when less traffic in the house
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 17, 2021, 04:10:21 PM
OK so far so good. When the router came up after the reboot the DHCP server wasn't enabled (so I guess it had been saving that setting, just not honoring it!) Ping times seem unchanged from earlier but I'll have a better idea of how it's doing after I've been running it for a little bit.

Thank you thank you thank you!
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: davevt31 on December 17, 2021, 07:10:48 PM
Installed new firmware and did factory reset and reconfigure.  All seems good (still no iPv6).  Reset the E15 and configured using WPS.  There was one thing though, when changing WI-FI to WPA2/WPA3, the setting for the WPS button disappears from the menu and pressing the button didn't seem to activate the process and extender wouldn't connect for setup.  Changed back to WPA2 only and the button option appeared back in the menu, pressing the button for 3 seconds on the router made the light blink like they should and extender was able to complete the setup.  After extender was done setting up, I changed back to WPA2/WPA3 and all seems good.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on December 20, 2021, 06:47:46 AM
WPS does not support WPA3 yet. So if WPA3 is enabled it will disable WPS.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: davevt31 on December 20, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: GreenBay42 on December 20, 2021, 06:47:46 AM
WPS does not support WPA3 yet. So if WPA3 is enabled it will disable WPS.

Yep, found that out after some searching.  What's weird though it worked with the older firmware with WPA2/WPA3 selected.  No big deal simple enough to do.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on December 22, 2021, 09:14:02 AM
Prob a bug in the earlier one :)  I believe they are changing the text/options in an upcoming firmware so it is more clear.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 25, 2021, 08:58:17 PM
OK so with the beta firmware, after one week...

1. DHCP server now acts correctly (is turned off permanently rather than until next reboot), yay!
2. Absolutely no problems changing Wi-Fi settings. The issues I raised with the 1.3.04 firmware where changing the settings often resulted in unusable Wi-Fi until you changed them again (even a minor change unrelated to the first) did not recur.
3. Did not get a chance to test again with Smart Connect on - I'd like to do that, just... it's Christmas week, it's been busy!
4. Reduced, but not eliminated, issues with "silent disconnects" where the Wi-Fi connection appears to be up but nothing is routed until you disconnect and reconnect. But they are still happening occasionally (once on my laptop this week)
5. That issue I mentioned with apps on my Chromebook having difficulty is still there. If I knew what I was doing I'd do a packet trace but... the issue is definitely on the W-Fi end, if I use the old AP (but with everything still routed through the R15) the apps work fine.
6. Tested another R15 acting as an extender; For the most part worked, but it has mysteriously rebooted three times this week for no apparent reason. Also - and this might not be the case under Smart Connect - the Wi-Fi side wasn't very reliable, I ended up giving it different SSIDs so I wouldn't connect by accident. Some times would lose 90% of my packets despite an apparently good enough signal.

This is a big improvement but it's not quite ready for me to recommend... yet. I'd say the router side of the R15 is done and fine, I don't have any issues there (and love the feature set, Classic D-Link quality, I'm very happy with that side.) The issues are all on the AP side. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon. If I do test the Smart Connect again I'll post an update.

And Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on December 26, 2021, 03:10:02 PM
OK I had some time this evening so switched everything - extender, main R15, to Smart Connect.

The good news is the things that had problems connecting are now connecting. I tested the Android phone and old Dell laptop from my previous list, and both connected immediately without any issues. So whatever was a problem with Smart Connect (I genuinely thought it was just using too new a protocol or something!) is now fixed in the beta firmware.

I'll continue to test this week and let you know.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on December 27, 2021, 06:52:43 AM
Thank you for the update. I will pass it along to the router group. Hope you had a great Christmas.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on January 02, 2022, 08:04:03 AM
Testing environment: Two R15s, one as an extender. Both upgraded to 1.04.01BETA Most Wireless left at defaults. Tried these configurations:

Primary Extender TimeNotes
Non-SCNon-SC1 weekWorked OK
Non-SCSC1-2 hoursSeemed to work OK
SCMesh1 weekVery solid but see below

OK final update on Beta firmware:

Most of the issues seem to be resolved as reported above. I still get the glitches in the game I mentioned which do not happen over the previous Wi-Fi but it's one of those harder "How do I give you useful information" bugs. In Smart Connect I didn't see any issues with Wi-Fi not routing etc, but it did occur when not in Smart Connect mode. I'm unsure if this is an issue with the R15 or my laptop.

Otherwise the Wi-Fi is fairly solid and I didn't come across any devices that wouldn't connect to it, regardless of whether it was in Mesh+SC, Smart Connect, or regular old two (that is, one 2.4GHz, and one 5GHz) APs mode.

For the router side, everything is fine too.

The WebUI is also more solid, with none of the issues of making changes causing unusable W-Fi configurations.

For the extender: in both mesh and traditional extender mode, the router that's in extender mode seems to have problems with stability. It'll unexpectedly reboot itself. When it was in traditional extender mode this happened at least 3 times that week. In mesh mode it's harder to tell but I have caught it in the act doing it twice this week.

Suggestions (all for a future major update, don't delay releasing 1.4 for these):

Can I recommend the UI allows the user to retrieve logs for routers in extender mode? This'll help us help the devs track down causes of the reboots. On that note the logs including a larger time frame and dedupping messages is probably worth doing too (my logs  on my main router are full of the message "radvd_cli: DDDDDDD current_vaild_time is 604800", often multiple times a second, which probably isn't helpful to anyone.)

Also on a personal wishlist: Some control over whether 5GHz is on in Smart Connect mode, maybe even allowing clients to have their 5GHz blacklisted by MAC ID would be useful if this is practically possible. I ask because I do have one device that has problems with 5GHz networking but superficially supports it, and when I Googled I found this is a very common problem, with a variety of different Wi-Fi adapters. It shouldn't be, and it's not D-Link's job to work around bugs in other people's Wi-Fi hardware and drivers, but Smart Connect is likely to bring a lot of these issues to the fore by forcing use of 5GHz when previously people would go "Huh, I guess 5GHz doesn't work, I'll just keep it on the 2.4 band."

Conclusion: please release this as soon as practically possible. It's a huge and very welcome update.
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: Saikumar843 on January 15, 2022, 10:16:34 PM
I have a 200Mbps connection. Sitting right next to my router connected to wifi 6. Getting the speeds.
6MB/s speed is not consistent and varying with in a meter radius of router
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: GreenBay42 on January 17, 2022, 07:23:49 AM
Are all your clients getting similar speeds or does it depend on the client? How are you testing the speed?
Title: Re: A little disappointed?
Post by: peharri on March 11, 2022, 07:13:34 PM
Just an update:

I have 1.4.4 running on the main R15, and 1.5.1 on my mesh node.

The only issue I'm still experiencing is that the mesh node keeps rebooting, typically every 1-2 days. It's enough to be annoying as usually everything downstairs is connected via it (so my wife's tablet, our phones, the Roku etc, and it interrupts connections like ssh sessions (I'm a software developer so this can be an issue.)

I've mentioned previously that I did downloads logs at one point from the main R15 immediately after a crash which I'd like to share with the devs if that helps them.

Right now it's the only major issue left that needs fixing, but it is a major issue. (The alternative will probably involve me buying yet another router to use as a traditional non-mesh repeater, which I'd rather not do, as when the mesh works, it works awesomely.)