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The Graveyard - Products No Longer Supported => D-Link Storage => DNS-323 => Topic started by: D-Link Multimedia on May 07, 2010, 12:02:49 PM

Title: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on May 07, 2010, 12:02:49 PM
This post is pending until 1.10 is released. Once 1.10 is released, AFT drives should be fully supported.

ShareCenter Users,
 
We regret to inform you that we can not support Western Digital’s new Desktop disk drives with Advanced Formatting Technology for use in our ShareCenter NAS devices.
 
WD does not recommend (and will not support) the use ANY of their Desktop disk drives in NAS devices, including their new drives with the Advanced Formatting Technology.  WD has no intention of rectifying this issue for NAS support.
 
According to WD, even if we were to solve the issues caused by their Advanced Formatting Technology in the standard mode, these drives may still cause problems when used in RAID configurations (especially with RAID 5).
 
This issue is not unique to D-Link nor the ShareCenter product line but rather relates to WD’s strategy moving forward.
 
WD will only guarantee the compatibility of their Enterprise disk drives with NAS devices, as they are not integrated with their Advanced Formatting Technology.
 
As a result, we will NOT support the use of any WD disk drive with Advanced Formatting Technology.
 
Thank you for your understanding.  Please do not hesitate to contact our team directly with any questions or concerns.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Stavr0s on May 08, 2010, 03:44:59 AM
does that mean the WD10EADS i have ordered are no good then :(

i have found via google that the WD10EARS model is the one that will be a problem, i was under the impression the WD10EADS was ok.

i see the 2TBEADS is on the supported list but i dont see the 1TB

if anyone here knows or has one in their 323 i would be glad of a reply, thanks


stavr0s


Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dosborne on May 08, 2010, 04:04:53 AM
I have a WD15EADS in one of my DNS323's and have been running it for a while with no errors. It is my understanding it is not one of the affected drives (only the WD10EARS, WD15EARS and WD20EARS).

Edit: Drive list from WDC http://products.wdc.com/Library/Flyer/ENG/2178-771123.pdf
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Stavr0s on May 08, 2010, 04:35:19 AM
thanks alot dosborne
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: James_CSE on May 09, 2010, 08:02:24 PM
I have a WD10EARS hard drive. I do not use it in RAID only standard mode so will I have any problems with it. Its the green supposedly energy efficient drive I've been using it for a month with no problems. I mainly just ftp files between home & work with it but if there's a chance it will fail maybe I should just use it in an enclosure as a plain USB drive & buy another HD for my DNS-323.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: AC3 on May 10, 2010, 03:59:56 PM
I've been running a WD20EADS standard mode for past few months with no problems. I believe the EARS (w/ 64mb cache) are the ones using 4k AFT, the EADS w/ 32mb cache aren't.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on May 10, 2010, 04:26:58 PM
The only thing you would notice is performance issues. We are going to try our best to work with WD and 'play nice' but it is not their intention for users to use desktop drives with nas units so we (as well as other nas manufacturers) suffer. Personally I would stay away from the 4k drives until it is more widely adopted by other HDD manufacturers and preferably ones that don't only care about Windows and Macs.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: IcyMidnight on May 11, 2010, 11:11:03 AM
Since people have been able to work around the limitations of the 4K clusters on the DNS 323, and WD claims that modern operating systems know how to format the drives properly, shouldn't it be fairly doable to detect drives that use 4K clusters and properly align the partitions created in the firmware?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: drakeblood on May 11, 2010, 12:27:39 PM
in fact the alignment can be done manually using fdisk... the problem is that at the next reboot the dlink frontend software will not detect it as a valid "dns-323 formatted driver"
it is quite funny because until you dont reboot, your NAS will be running 100% fine and aligned.(tested personally)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Rodent on May 11, 2010, 05:21:33 PM
As my supplier no longer supply WD20EADS drives and only supply's WD20EARS drives and the only 2TB drive on the Supported Hard Drive list is the WD20EADS what 2TB drive should one get?

If I plan to only use the DNS323 in standard drive mode can I use the WD20EARS drives with no problems?

Thanks
R.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: neoncs on May 12, 2010, 04:01:33 AM
Oh Bugger,

As I type I am at 98% just formating 2 newly purchased WD 2TB EARS Green in Raid 1 configuration in my new DNS 323 with fw upgraded to 1.08.

What can I expect the issues to be?

I will report back any problems I found.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Tank_Killer on May 12, 2010, 07:31:58 AM
Expect very poor performace in a few months, or after you have started writing large amounts of data.  I would return those drives ASAP for something compatable.

Its unfortunate, as alot of people will buy EARS drives for this box as the retail package wouldn't indicate unsupported drives.  And only hardcore people would check the forum before purchasing drives for their NAS.

Oh well, computers are fun!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dosborne on May 12, 2010, 08:07:19 AM
I had picked up a WD15EARS HDD to mirror to my WD15EADS drive last Friday. It formatted fine, mirrored fine, then the raid "degraded" in a couple of hours. I reformated, remirrored. After a few hours, same thing, raid degraded. I returned the WD15EARS drive on Monday for a Seagate ST31500341AS, formatted, mirrored and been running fine since.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: neoncs on May 12, 2010, 03:26:33 PM
Yep,

It formated ok and appeared to be working. I then copied 10 GB and it was fine. I then left it to copy 300GB to it and this morning the mirrored drive shows it was disconnected in the logs. It has be regraded. I then did a restart of NAS and it advises the replacement drive does not have a large enough capacity.

Oh well looks like I will have 2 x 2TB drives to sell.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dd on May 12, 2010, 04:35:44 PM
Slot   Vendor   Model   Serial Number   Size
Right   WDC   WD20EADS-00R6B0   WD-WCAVYxxxx   2000 G   
Left   WDC   WD20EADS-00R6B0   WD-WCAVYxxxx   2000 G

Configured as Jbod.  Runs quite well.  Sometimes, it runs quite slowly,
and I'm never sure if it's the ethernet connect speed or something else.
I expect 1000Mbps ... not sure if (or how) I should be configuring jumbo frames,
which is the purpose of my forum visit today.

Accessed from Win7-64, WinXP and Linux .... having a bit of trouble with my Macs.

Will post dnstester speeds.   
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: James_CSE on May 12, 2010, 08:08:25 PM
Thanks for the info ... I have always bought WD drives ... They should have made this 4K advanced format issue more well known ... I guess that's how they push new HW w/ new specs out there.
The next drive I buy might not start with a "WD".

Anyway I'll remove my WD10EARS from my DNS-323 and make a usb drive out of it.
I currently have a WD10EACS 16MB Cache - not listed as a supported drive here - but no 4K issues
Does anyone know of any potential issues with a WD10EACS for the DNS-323?
Other than WD not supporting it. Thanks
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jimsy on May 12, 2010, 10:07:21 PM
I just purchased this NAS today unfortunately frys didn't happen to have a big sign saying dont buy wd20ears so that's what i did...

given that 4k AFT is incompatible does that mean that wd20eadds drives will work in a 323? Or are there additional issues with using 2TB hard drives in raid 1 mode?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Rodent on May 13, 2010, 10:54:25 PM
Sorry for asking again but I don't think my question was answered.

If I use the WD20EARS drives in standard mode NOT Raid 1 mode will I have problems ???

I can see that plenty of people are having problems with Raiding these drives but I don't want to Raid them.

R.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Boogieman on May 14, 2010, 04:08:25 AM
Thanks for the info ... I have always bought WD drives ... They should have made this 4K advanced format issue more well known ... I guess that's how they push new HW w/ new specs out there.
The next drive I buy might not start with a "WD".

Anyway I'll remove my WD10EARS from my DNS-323 and make a usb drive out of it.
I currently have a WD10EACS 16MB Cache - not listed as a supported drive here - but no 4K issues
Does anyone know of any potential issues with a WD10EACS for the DNS-323?
Other than WD not supporting it. Thanks
1.
I am using 1 WD10EACS-22D6B0 in JBOD and it seems to work fine.
I will buy a new large drive soon and i love the cool and quiet WD greens, so I will try to get one from the supported list since D-link seems to have huge problems with supporting certain WD drives :(

2.
The current drive never hibernates with FW 1.08 though (not even after disconnecting cable longer than "set hibernation time" - the blue HD Light is allways ON and so is the NAS)
After searching google it seems i need to reset to defaults and enter all settings again.
I had a huge problem when i installed 1.08 - since all files on drive seemed to disappear after loading config from 1.06FW. At last I reset to defaults and loaded it again - removed alla accounts and re-added them and then i got the files.

Did not think it should be this messy getting a NAS to function as specified.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: bennychains on May 15, 2010, 06:58:06 PM
Who the heck checks the vendor's website before buying electronic to make sure there is only a specific list of items that are compatible with it?

Am i suppose to check CusianArt(dot)com before i buy their coffee grinder to make sure it can blend all types of coffee beans? 

Im like almost irritated.

I just bought: 2 WD7501AALS brand new, and this DNS323.  The drives are in the mail, and doubt are returnable / exchangeable.

Does anyone know if those drives are compatible? 
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=487 

ill update when i get them.     
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Buhric on May 16, 2010, 04:51:55 AM
dont start comparing coffee beans with hard drives.....

let me you ask this...

when you buy a motherboard.... do you make sure it will support the CPU you are buying for it..

or when you buy a TV... do you make sure it has the inputs you need?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dosborne on May 16, 2010, 05:24:52 AM
When a product such as the DNS323 releases BEFORE a HDD manufacturer makes a new drive (EARS) with a new technology (AFT), it is pretty hard for DLink to claim or reject support. I guess their crystal ball was broken that day.

I think DLink has done a great job with their product and is significantly better than some vendors in providing updates. It has encouraged me to buy more DLink products based on my experience with the DNS323.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: bennychains on May 16, 2010, 07:55:33 AM
dont start comparing coffee beans with hard drives.....

let me you ask this...

when you buy a motherboard.... do you make sure it will support the CPU you are buying for it..

or when you buy a TV... do you make sure it has the inputs you need?

its more like you buying a TV to find out certain channels are not compatible.
Its more like buying a motherboard/chip to find out that its not compatible with any previous components you have that youre trying to pair with it.

but i found out my model hard drives are compatible, so this part is a non-issue for me now.   Though i cant get the print server to work.  probably cause my printer is incompatible.

so let me you ask this...



When a product such as the DNS323 releases BEFORE a HDD manufacturer makes a new drive (EARS) with a new technology (AFT), it is pretty hard for DLink to claim or reject support. I guess their crystal ball was broken that day.

I think DLink has done a great job with their product and is significantly better than some vendors in providing updates. It has encouraged me to buy more DLink products based on my experience with the DNS323.

yeah i know, i was just irked that i just bought two drives that may not work with it  but then i found a compatibility list that showed it does.

http://www.mydlink.co.kr/backoffice/notice/file/DNS-323_Compatible_Lists_-_20100108(0322105531).pdf

Is this list legit?



Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: lozinthevilla on May 17, 2010, 01:23:43 PM
Great thread! Just wish I'd read it last week before ordering some WD EARS drives!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: whywouldyoudothat on May 18, 2010, 12:19:13 AM
So....its only these drives with models EARS etc..

If mine is FALS it should be fine?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dosborne on May 18, 2010, 04:03:36 PM
The WD posted earlier in the thread lists the specific drive models.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: OlegMZ on May 19, 2010, 08:42:16 PM
OK. I have NAS-323 with 2 WD15EARS as RAID-1 with EXT3  already 30% filled with files. What should I expect in the future with these "unsupported" drives? Data loss? Speed degradation?
So far speed has been on 1 Gb link with no jumbo  130-160 Mbit/s (on new empty drives) and 7-8 MBytes/s (72-85 Mbit/s) over 100 Mbit/s network (I ran NAStester and watched link utilization at the same time).
Any forecast?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: amunoz_tico on May 20, 2010, 02:38:11 PM
As my supplier no longer supply WD20EADS drives and only supply's WD20EARS drives and the only 2TB drive on the Supported Hard Drive list is the WD20EADS what 2TB drive should one get?

If I plan to only use the DNS323 in standard drive mode can I use the WD20EARS drives with no problems?

Thanks
R.


I still can get the WD20EADS model from some online retails. Here one of those = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140408833777 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140408833777)    It is the BEST price available that I have seen !!

Regards!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Rodent on May 20, 2010, 04:22:16 PM

I still can get the WD20EADS model from some online retails. Here one of those = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140408833777 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140408833777)    It is the BEST price available that I have seen !!

Regards!

Thanks for that but I am in Australia so the cost involved will be to much for these drives. I checked the Australian eBay and the cost is still to much, I would prefer to buy HDD's locally for warranty return as I have had problem in the past with returning HDD's for warranty.

Thanks
R.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: MyDNS323 on May 23, 2010, 10:45:20 AM
I noticed that NetGear has announced that they will support the 4K drives (it "will be ready when it is ready"), and that Drobo and Synology already supports them. It definitely sounds like it is a firmware update. While I don't expect a solution tomorrow, I would hope that D-Link is working on this problem now.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: turbox on May 24, 2010, 06:51:25 AM
I noticed that NetGear has announced that they will support the 4K drives (it "will be ready when it is ready"), and that Drobo and Synology already supports them. It definitely sounds like it is a firmware update. While I don't expect a solution tomorrow, I would hope that D-Link is working on this problem now.
So had I...

In the first post D-link Multimedia states that the issue in standard mode is fixable. The real problem comes when using RAID.
Should we expect that issue (at least) for standard configuration fixed on upcoming firmware??

I just bought two 2TB EARS and didn't notice about this...


thank you..
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dannycalgary87 on May 31, 2010, 08:23:02 AM
Sorry for asking again but I don't think my question was answered.

If I use the WD20EARS drives in standard mode NOT Raid 1 mode will I have problems ???

I can see that plenty of people are having problems with Raiding these drives but I don't want to Raid them.

R.

If anyone can answer this that would be great.

I am also just running one WD20EARS drive in standard mode (obviously) and in the future will get another 2TB drive. If I jsut run 2 of them in standard mode (not concerned for mirroring in raid 1). Will I still see a decrease in performance.

Also is it an option to get a WD20EAD drive and use them together? Or does that cause even more problems?

Thanks
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: MyDNS323 on May 31, 2010, 09:51:16 AM
If anyone can answer this that would be great.

I am also just running one WD20EARS drive in standard mode (obviously) and in the future will get another 2TB drive. If I jsut run 2 of them in standard mode (not concerned for mirroring in raid 1). Will I still see a decrease in performance.

Also is it an option to get a WD20EAD drive and use them together? Or does that cause even more problems?

Thanks

The EARS are 4k drives, so  I don't think RAID1 or standard disks makes any difference. In the end, the issue is that the DNS has trouble with 4k aligned drives.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dannycalgary87 on May 31, 2010, 10:00:03 AM
Alright, well luckily I just bought the drive on saturday and can return it no problem. Gotta go online to get some of those EADS. Thanks for the response!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: yeargh on June 02, 2010, 05:30:19 AM
Dear D-Link:

Read before you buy?  Are you kidding?

So can I print this thread and take it to my retailer indicating that *they* should have known about this when they sold me the NAS and drives together, so they should take back *four* unsealed WD10EARS drives?  I'm sure that will fly.

I do not rant online, but I will make a special exception this time. 
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dpolmann on June 02, 2010, 01:18:38 PM
Anyone looking for WD20EADS and only seeing WD20EARS now widely available might read that the "retail box" version of that drive (sold as WD20000CSRTL) is the same device. My experience this week is otherwise. I have had DNS-323 for a couple of years with Seagate (7200.10) 320's inside. Time to expand; need more space. Have read terrible things about Seagates (7200.11 and .12) so don't want to buy those now. Could not find WD20EADS, which is what I wanted since it is on the "tested" list for DNS-323. Found the WD20000CSRTL at local big retailer; read online that this is same drive. Bought two at the store, and luckily opened the boxes while standing in front of service tech. Found one drive was EADS and the other drive was EARS. Explained my restriction to have only the EADS. Found one more box on the shelf and to my great surprise it was EADS inside the box; the technician conceded they were having quite a few complaints about the EARS drives and seemed to understand my concern for getting two of the EADS. So, look carefully before you buy...including opening the box!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: krausologer on June 06, 2010, 09:50:31 PM
Anyone looking for WD20EADS and only seeing WD20EARS now widely available might read that the "retail box" version of that drive (sold as WD20000CSRTL) is the same device. My experience this week is otherwise. I have had DNS-323 for a couple of years with Seagate (7200.10) 320's inside. Time to expand; need more space. Have read terrible things about Seagates (7200.11 and .12) so don't want to buy those now. Could not find WD20EADS, which is what I wanted since it is on the "tested" list for DNS-323. Found the WD20000CSRTL at local big retailer; read online that this is same drive. Bought two at the store, and luckily opened the boxes while standing in front of service tech. Found one drive was EADS and the other drive was EARS. Explained my restriction to have only the EADS. Found one more box on the shelf and to my great surprise it was EADS inside the box; the technician conceded they were having quite a few complaints about the EARS drives and seemed to understand my concern for getting two of the EADS. So, look carefully before you buy...including opening the box!

@dpolmann - This exact situation happened to me. Bought two WD20000CSTRLs at Best Buy and ended up getting one WD20EADS and one WD20EARS drive. I'm going to try to exchange the EARS for an EADS and explain my situation similarly to what you described above. Since the actual HDD model number is only on the drive itself, hopefully the BB people will be sympathetic to my situation.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: DAFILKOV01 on June 10, 2010, 02:13:26 AM
Hello,

I have bought DNS-323 with 2x2TB EARS drives.
I plan to use it in standard form (no raid) with some folders synchronizing between HDD's.
So far, so good.
If anyone of you encounter problems please respond, I will do that also.
I am in no position of returning the drives :-/
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: InBonobo on June 12, 2010, 05:58:52 PM
@DAFILKOV01
Problems will start appearing later on, not right off the bat. By that time, you will have data you will need to move, making fixing it more difficult. I strongly suggest you format properly in the beginning, before reaching that point.

Timezlicer, dcmwai and myself wrote guides on formatting properly. Mine is here: http://www.consumedconsumer.org/2010/06/upgrading-my-dns-323-to-2-x-2-tb-ii_08.html
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: DAFILKOV01 on June 15, 2010, 03:40:50 AM
Thank you InBonobo!!!
I have already done it with your recipe...
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: HungryBUTTON on June 17, 2010, 10:44:56 PM
4K drives are not your only problem.

All the new consumer WD drives (Green, Blue, Black) have TLER disabled

Time Limited Error Recovery is required to be enabled on RAID drives.

When data is written or read from a bad sector, the HDD will try to automatically recover this error but this can stall all commands to the disk for up to 2 minutes.

With most RAID's this will cause problems as the controllers (or software RAID) think the HDD is dead so it will drop it from the array.

When TLER is enabled it limits the HDD's error recovery attempt to 7 seconds, after this then the controller will mark the sector as bad, reallocate it then attempt to rebuild the data on the new sector.

Seagate and Samsung also have this problem.

Seagate = ERC
Samsung = CCTL
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on June 18, 2010, 12:36:21 AM
How would one toggle this feature? Can Dlink confirm this is also a potential issue? Are you saying that enabling the time limit will avoid the issue? If a sector on a drive is bad and results in data loss presumably the RAID is then degraded? Or do the drives generally mark a sector as bad before data loss occurs?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: HungryBUTTON on June 18, 2010, 12:50:55 AM
That is the problem with the new WD drives, you cannot turn on the feature. WD disabled this ability.

Samsung and Seagate you can enable this feature however it does not survive a power down of the drive. EG. It reverts back to disabled.

In a single disk / non raided scenario the disk will mark it as a bad sector and the data in that sector will be lost unless the HDD is able to recover it within 2 minutes.

In a RAID scenario with TLER enabled the sector will be marked as bad and it will be up to the RAID array / controller to recover the data not the hdd.

In a RAID scenario with TLER disabled the drive will hang and the RAID controller will drop the drive and the array will become degraded

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on June 18, 2010, 01:21:12 AM
I read that smartctl may be able to read/write this value? I assume the manufacturers will be pushing enterprise level drives designed for RAID but what I don't know is how obvious it will be which drives have this disabled and which don't

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/146077 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/146077)

Looks like WD have RAID specific drives- this one actually mentions this error recovery setting in the spec. Same for the more expensive Seagate NS.2:

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=481e83de34b43110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD (http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=481e83de34b43110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: al bundy on June 25, 2010, 05:10:51 AM
Well, I think D-Link does deserve some of the bad blood being spilled here.

I did check the website (not this forum) for compatible drives, and while these particular models are not listed as compatible there is no mention of them being severely incompatible.

Code: [Select]
***************************
*            DISCLAIMER               *
***************************

Drives that have been tested and approved by D-Link will be flagged with an asterisk (*). Drive models that do NOT have an asterisk (*) by them are currently being used by end users but have not been internally tested or verified by D-Link.

Note: If you are experiencing issues with your hard drives please verify that you are using the latest firmware on your DNS-323. The latest firmware can be found at http://www.support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DNS%2D323#firm.

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Hitachi Deskstar 7K160 HDS721680PLA380 SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 HDS722512VLSA80 SATA 1.5G HDD 120GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K160 HDS721616PLA380 SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K500 HDS725050KLA360 SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K80 HDS728080PLA380 SATA 3G HDD 82.3GB*
Hitachi Deskstar P7K500 HDP725050GLA360 SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 HDT722525DLA380 SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 HDT725025VLA380 SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360 SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 HDT725032VLA360 SATA 3G HDD 320GB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 HDS721010KLA330 SATA 3G HDD 1TB*
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.B HDT721010SLA360 SATA 3G HDD 1TB*

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6V080E03 SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Maxtor DiamondMax 11 6H400F0 SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Maxtor DiamondMax 20 STM3160811AS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Maxtor DiamondMax 21 STM3250310AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Maxtor DiamondMax 21 STM3500320AS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Maxtor MaxLine III 7V250F0 SATA 3G HDD 250GB
Maxtor MaxLine Pro 7H500F0 SATA 3G HDD 500GB

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD753LJ SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Samsung Spinpoint P SP1213C SATA 1.5G HDD 120GB*
Samsung Spinpoint S250 HD250HJ SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Samsung Spinpoint T HD321KJ SATA 3G HDD 320GB
Samsung Spinpoint T HD400LJ SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Samsung Spinpoint T HD401LJ SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Samsung Spinpoint T HD501LJ SATA 3G HDD 500GB

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250620AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3750640AS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3500630AS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS SATA 3G HDD 320GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS SATA 1.5G HDD 160GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3400832AS SATA 1.5G HDD 400GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3200826AS SATA 1.5G HDD 200GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST380810AS SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3160812AS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3160815AS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3750330AS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3750640NS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS SATA 3G HDD 1TB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS SATA 3G HDD 1.5TB*
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823AS SATA 3G HDD 250GB
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3300831AS SATA 3G HDD 300GB
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3500641AS SATA 3G HDD 500GB
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3250620NS SATA 3G HDD 250GB
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3320620NS SATA 3G HDD 320GB
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS SATA 3G HDD 500GB
Seagate DB35.3 ST3250820SCE SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Seagate SV35.2 ST3500630SV SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Seagate NL35 ST3400833NS SATA 3G HDD 400GB
Seagate NL35.2 ST3400633NS SATA 3G HDD 400GB

Vendor Family Model Interface Capacity
Western Digital Caviar GP WD5000AACS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD SATA 3G HDD 80GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS SATA 3G HDD 200GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500AAJS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200AAJS SATA 3G HDD 320GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD4000KD SATA 1.5G HDD 400GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500AAKS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD SATA 3G HDD 150GB*
Western Digital RE WD2500YS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital RE WD1600YS SATA 3G HDD 160GB*
Western Digital RE WD2500YS SATA 3G HDD 250GB*
Western Digital RE2 WD5000YS SATA 3G HDD 500GB*
Western Digital RE2 WD7500AYYS SATA 3G HDD 750GB*
Western Digital RE2 WD1000FYPS SATA 3G HDD 1TB*
Western Digital Caviar® Green WD20EADS SATA 3G HDD 2TB*
Western Digital Caviar® Green WD10000CSRTL SATA 3G HDD 1TB
Western Digital Caviar® SE WD1200JS SATA 3G HDD 120GB
Western Digital Caviar® Blue WD5000AAJS SATA 3G HDD 500GB
Western Digital SE16 WD7500AAKS SATA 3G HDD 750GB

It makes one believe that other drives may work, but are not officially tested and approved.
Also many of the drives listed are not available as new purchases, perhaps some newer info could be posted.

An example, I wanted 2 - 1 Tb seatgate drives, but the only ones I can find right now are Seagate Barracuda 7200.12  1TB Sata Drives, the list only goes to 7200.10.

I think D-Link should at least provide a link to the compatibility list on the outside of their packaging. Spending a few dollars to do this, will more than pay off in customer satisfaction.

All this being said, I guess even at D-Link its "Buyer Beware" 
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jeffers.r on June 26, 2010, 09:15:48 PM
OK. I have NAS-323 with 2 WD15EARS as RAID-1 with EXT3  already 30% filled with files. What should I expect in the future with these "unsupported" drives? Data loss? Speed degradation?
So far speed has been on 1 Gb link with no jumbo  130-160 Mbit/s (on new empty drives) and 7-8 MBytes/s (72-85 Mbit/s) over 100 Mbit/s network (I ran NAStester and watched link utilization at the same time).
Any forecast?

I'm in almost the exact same situation as above. I've been running 2 WD20EARS on RAID1 since January. 70% full. I've noticed that the speeds were slower then I expected, but didn't think too much of it until finding this thread. I'm more concerned about the potential for data loss, can anyone elaborate?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on June 27, 2010, 05:57:05 AM
If it was me, I'd replace the drives with supported ones. If you are running a RAID array, you should be able to swap one at a time. Before you do anything, and if you are that concerned about data loss, you should have another backup of your data.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jeffers.r on June 29, 2010, 09:52:21 AM
Honestly, I'm a bit baffled by this entire issue.

As I mentioned above, I've been running a DNS-323 using two WD20EARS drives since January in a RAID1 config without any issues what-so-ever. After reading this thread, I became concerned and decided to test things out on my second DNS-323 I purchased recently (with the exact same drive type) by removing the RAID1 and reformatting to the drives (according to some of the step-by-steps guides on these forums) in order to sync them correctly.

Now, when I compare my original DNS-323 with RAID1 without proper syncing, to the new DNS-323 without RAID and the drives properly synced, the performance is, for all intensive purposes, identical.

I'd love to simply go out and buy new "compatible" drives, but that's not in the budget at the moment. So in the meantime, it's tough to take any steps when I'm not having any issues.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: mastermayhem on June 30, 2010, 03:52:32 PM
I received my 2 X Western Digital WD15EARS Caviar Green 1.5TB SATA 64MB Cache today and plugged them in, got the "format" message and attempted to format them. The format failed with an error message and I was prompted to restart. Upon restart, the drives did not show up at all. I used one of my external enclosures (eSATA) to check the drives. One appears to have failed immediately, and the other looks fine to Win7, but once I put it back in the DNS-323 it will not format. Status shows that a drive is inserted, but I cannot format it and the "Physical Disc Info" section will not show any info for the disc. It won't even show the side that it is inserted in. (ex. Drive is in "right" slot and only "left" is showing)

I have updated and then downgraded firmware, formatted the disc in Win7 using Acronis Disk Director Home in EXT2 and even completely deleted all partitions. Anyone else run into this or have a thought for a solution?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: serco on July 12, 2010, 08:19:08 PM
For guys like me that use the retail WD hard disk WD20000CSRTL; and theses drives are WD20EARS since a month (then non exchangeable, non refundable).
 
I have firmware 1.09
I have 2 x WD20EARS drives formatted in RAID 1 (mirroring)
I use Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bits)

What are the suggestions to keep the DNS-323 with WD EARS drives up and running, with the minimum of inconvenients?

Also, no words from D-Link Staff in this thread since May 10th.

1) The D-Link position of not supporting the WD 2TB EARS drive is final?

2) D-Link continue to discuss with WD to find a way to help their users?

Serco
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: gunrunnerjohn on July 13, 2010, 05:26:30 AM
Different brand of NAS?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: SalsaNChips on July 16, 2010, 05:17:45 AM
Regarding this question about WD drives...

Folks, this is a problem with WD. Specifically, sometime in early 2009 they made a decision to intentionally cripple the firmware in their non-enterprise (i.e., Caviar) product line in a way to make them ONLY function reliably as stand-alone drives in desktop applications. No RAID functionality.

The reason for this was to protect the market space for the more expensive enterprise class RE3/RE4, etc. drives. Think about it -- why would somebody want to pay 20-30% more for enterprise-class drives for a clustered storage/RAID application when the cheaper desktop drives function just as well? Solution -- make the cheaper desktop drives NOT FUNCTION SO WELL in those type applications (RAID).

One of the ways WD did this was by disabling a feature known as TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) on the Caviar drives. Google it for details. Causes drives to drop out of RAID arrays when they encounter read error lasting more than a few seconds (actually, 7 seconds). Thus forcing you to unplug the drive from the hot-swap backplane, plug it back in and force a rebuild, whereafter it functions just fine for a while (sometimes weeks) then does it again.

How do I know all this? Because I just built a new Windows 7 (64) PC using an ASUS mb with an Intel RAID controller and a Corsair chassis with a SATA II hot swap backplane and made the mistake of selecting 4 WD 1TB Caviar drives for my 2TB RAID 10 array. Everything works great for 2, sometime 3 weeks then I will lose a drive from the array, have to hot re-plug and re-build it in Intel RST v9.6. I did a lot of research on it and discovered the TLER issue. Used WD tools to probe the time limedted error recovery parameter in the firmware on my drives. It was turned off and DISABLED in firmware.

One of the things that sort of obfuscates the issue and masks WD's involvement in this is that prior to about August 2009, the TLER parm was totally functional and yes, you could buy a cheaper Caviar drive, stick it in a RAID array and everything would be great. Those were the days. Then WD started turning TLER off in firmware and a few months later, actually DISABLED (crippled) the TLER parm in the firmware so you couldn't turn it back on, even with the correct WD utilities (which about the same time, disappeared from WD's download site).

So, if you have a Caviar drive made before a certain date, you may have no problems at all running it in a RAID configuration. But you WILL have a problem if you use recent, current production WD non-enterprise drives.

WD changed their marketing or sales materials to start using the work "desktop" a lot more in the product description of the Caviar drives. At the same time, they are now trumpeting the RE3/RE4 enterprise class drives as being "TLER enabled". Whatever...

Myself, I am ditching my TLER disabled but otherwise fully functional 1TB WD Caviar Blacks when I get the chance for a pair of Seagate Barracuda or Hitachi"s. And that *especially* applies to the drive selection for my soon to be acquired the DLINK DNS-323 NAS as well. Just wish I had known all this 4 months ago before I made a $450.00 mistake purchasing WD Caviar drives for RAID 10 :(
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on July 16, 2010, 08:11:42 AM
If your drives are dropping out of RAID because of read errors, doesn't that mean the disks are not happy anyway - regardless of TLER settings?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: SalsaNChips on July 17, 2010, 05:27:41 AM
If your drives are dropping out of RAID because of read errors, doesn't that mean the disks are not happy anyway - regardless of TLER settings?

Nope. Google "TLER" for specific details on why it is required in a RAID application.

My understanding is this -- in a RAID application, the amount of time required to sucessfully complete a disk write operation needs to be relaxed somewhat from what it would be if the drive was operating as a stand-alone drive in a non-RAID configuration. That is, wait longer before timing out and reporting a disk error to the controller. An error reported by a disk WILL cause the controller to flag the disk as having malfunctioned and go into a recovery mode which degrades RAID performance. Or, as in my case, causes the Intel RST service to flag the drive as "offline" until I hot-plug it, whereafter it initiates a re-build (lasting a couple hours) and everything is okay until the next time it happens.

One additional detail to my original post, FYI -- I originally tried RAID 5 with two WD Blacks and had MAJOR problems. RAID 10 with 4 drives worked MUCH better, still the occasional drop-outs due to the TLER issue but tolerable until I can sell the four WD Blacks and get something else (NOT WESTERN DIGITAL).
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: SalsaNChips on July 17, 2010, 05:47:52 AM
What are the suggestions to keep the DNS-323 with WD EARS drives up and running, with the minimum of inconvenients?

Suggestion would be to get new drives that will work in a RAID configuration.

See here:
http://community.wdc.com/t5/forums/searchpage/tab/message?q=EARS+RAID (http://community.wdc.com/t5/forums/searchpage/tab/message?q=EARS+RAID)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: gunrunnerjohn on July 17, 2010, 07:43:43 AM
Obviously, WD is becoming "customer hostile" and forcing NAS users into more expensive (bur not more capable) drives.

Simple answer?  Don't buy from WD, the obviously don't need our business!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on July 25, 2010, 04:14:07 PM
Nope. Google "TLER" for specific details on why it is required in a RAID application.

What I was getting at is if your drives are healthy in the first place and aren't timing out on writes to bad sectors- where's the problem? You only run in to the TLER if you have errors on your drives?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: tentimes on August 07, 2010, 07:16:42 AM
What I was getting at is if your drives are healthy in the first place and aren't timing out on writes to bad sectors- where's the problem? You only run in to the TLER if you have errors on your drives?

All drives give frequent read errors which are quietly corrected without you knowing - it's part of how they work with redundancy. If one of these normally benign (and unnoticeable) errors randomly hangs for more than a certain amount of time then you have a down drive. Normally the TLER would be part of the benign operation of the drive, but now it causes a critical failure. That's why it's a problem. I would recommend reading up on how modern drives work and that will give you a better understanding of error correction and recovery which are part of the normal proces of drive management.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: tentimes on August 07, 2010, 07:20:53 AM
Nobody has yet replied on whether these drives work ok in JBOD operation. Are they going to be running with the misallignment error in JBOD? In that case the answer is don't use them in any situation. If they do align ok and the issue is only in RAID then I would love to hear that as I have one on it's way to me now :( I was going to use it to replace a fast SAmsung spinpoint 1TB in the 323 which I was going to pinch for my desktop duer to it's speed.

Can anyone comment further? I'm reading up on the problem right now but am unsure of why it is an issue for the DNS-323. CAn the 323 align the drive correctly or not under ext2 (in non raid)?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: tentimes on August 11, 2010, 06:55:52 AM
EDIT: The drive cyclinders are misaligned if you format these drives as they are and put them in the 323. I have confirmed this by checking after format on a linux machine. The following comment is a link to how to align them properly so you won't be getting delays. The biggest delays will be in small random writes (up to 20x slower if not aligned). Just thought I would make that clear as my first comment might have been taken wrongly.


These drives can be used ok in standalone mode - I spent 3 days investigating and have written a guide on how to do it: http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=14484.0
 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=14484.0) JBOD shouldn't be a problem either, but I don't know how that works in terms of formatting (and I haven't the spare drives to find out) or I would have written that too.

The missingt TLER bit seems to have banjaxed RAID though - I can't see a way round that without a kernel update and firmware update
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: motopsycho on August 14, 2010, 06:18:33 AM
I have always purchased WD drives but is it the best option for the 323?

Is the WD20EADS compatible?  I want to go as big as I can go.   ;D
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: gunrunnerjohn on August 14, 2010, 06:40:11 AM
Look for drives WITHOUT the new 4k sector option, you'll be happy you did. :)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: tentimes on August 14, 2010, 07:40:18 AM
I have always purchased WD drives but is it the best option for the 323?

Is the WD20EADS compatible?  I want to go as big as I can go.   ;D

The EADS are fine, they are not 4k sector I believe - double check on the WD website though. For the 4k sector drives if you are not using them in RAID and just using standalone then I strongly suspect there will be a BIOS fix, but in the meantime I have posted a fix (which won't be too hard to code in firmware): http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=14484.0

In terms of RAID though, WD have really ****ed that one up rayally by disabling the TLER bit. I think this is a terrible strategy, but until they reverse the decision I defintely would not touch these for RAID. Don't confuse the 4k sector problem with the RAID issue though - 4k sectors is here to stay and I am sure the other manufacturers will be releasing 4k sector drives very soon. Hopefully we will get normal ones though that don't report 512k sectors instead of 4k. Maybe have jumper for that for windows xp users.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on August 14, 2010, 02:59:46 PM
They want you to buy the enterprise drives for RAID instead of desktop drives...They specifically mention the proper TLER setting and AFAIK give a MTBF rating that they don't do for desktop drives. This is also true for Seagate.

I thought the 4K sector drives already had jumpers for Windows XP.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: scaramanga on August 14, 2010, 04:31:25 PM
Before I bought the HDDs I looked into this TLER thing. Since I eventually decided to use standard mode, TLER became a non-issue. However, I came across this:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-features/31202-should-you-use-tler-drives-in-your-raid-nas (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-features/31202-should-you-use-tler-drives-in-your-raid-nas)
The relevant part from this article is:
Quote
The responses I received from Synology, QNAP, NETGEAR and Buffalo all indicated that their NAS RAID controllers don't depend on or even listen to TLER, CCTL, ERC or any other similar error recovery signal from their drives. Instead, their software RAID controllers have their own criteria for drive timeouts, retries and when a drive is finally marked bad.

These software RAID controllers are generally more patient and wait significantly longer for drive response and execute more retries before finally giving up and marking a drive dead. While this may degrade performance slightly when dealing with drives with bad blocks, it's intended to reduce the occurrances of drives dropping out of RAID volumes and the subsequent long, risky rebuilds.

Too bad they didn't get word from D-Link about this. I was too lazy to read through the code and find out for myself. If this convinces you or not - that's up to you.

p.s.: Also note that the TLER feature exists/doesn't-exist in other vendor's HDDs as well. Different vendors use different names for it.

An informed official response to this article from D-Link will be appreciated, I think.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: tentimes on August 15, 2010, 02:25:54 PM
If that's the case (and I don't know much about raid) then since we now have a solution for the 4k sector issue then I don't see why there isn't an easy firmware update for it. Certainly the method I posted for formatting the 4k sectors on boundaries properly is extremely easy to put into the firmware - it a matter of changing 3 lines tops (Using Fdisk -H 224 -S 56 to partition instead of whatever other Fdisk command they have insures it's on 4k boundaries).

The more I look into this and understand it, the more I come to the opinion that Dlink have a really poor firmware development lab. For the past 2 years on the DIR-655 we have had one firmware debacle after another. I have a suspicion that they outsource firmware development and don't understand their own firmware. I mean, I didn't have a clue how the thing worked apart from it was a box with 2 drives in it and some flashing blue lights, and within 8 hours I was able to update my machine to get over the 4k sector problem.

Just looking through some of the code, if people like Wilson Chan have moved on then I suppose it wouldn't be the easiest job in the world to go back in and edit it ;) But I suspect with even my limited knowledge that after updating fdisk bin and commands it probably a matter of a kernel update? I dunno.

Time we had some more info from Dlink though!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: scaramanga on August 27, 2010, 01:43:39 AM
It's been almost two weeks now, and still no official response from D-Link regarding what I wrote/quoted a couple of replies above (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=12977.msg85019#msg85019).
The sticky welcome thread (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=665.0) says:
Quote
This forum is designed to allow the public and the Technical Services department of D-Link to openly share ideas and quick fix tips. Please keep posts concise and on topic.
So D-Link, please share your thoughts with us on this matter.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: papasmurph on October 05, 2010, 01:41:55 AM
I use WD20EADS with 1.09 firmware. I haven't set the drives for XP mode.

So far the only issues I have noted are (which might be generic to the DNS-323 rather than the drives):
* Copying many small files take forever. There seems to be extensive latency between files. Due to Samba?
* Sometimes there's something "lost in the translation" so that Windows 7 thinks it can't copy a large file. I have to restart the copy, and if the file is large enough (like 10 GB) it sometimes never will copy.

Cheers
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: gunrunnerjohn on October 05, 2010, 05:34:12 AM
Neither of those issues happen with either my DNS-321 or DNS-323 for small files or large files.  I have 40gb backup image files and tons of little files, no issues at all.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on October 05, 2010, 11:50:42 AM
Sometimes there's something "lost in the translation" so that Windows 7 thinks it can't copy a large file. I have to restart the copy, and if the file is large enough (like 10 GB) it sometimes never will copy.

Cheers


Are you connecting wirelessly? That happens to me when copying large files over wireless. The connection kind of dies at random. No fault of the 323.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: irotjaf on October 10, 2010, 10:59:35 PM
Hi Jamie,

Is it normal that the wifi connection dies? I stream movies to my laptop and occasionally VLC stop reading the file with an error message and freezes. Can this be due to what you say?

I am planning to buy a TV with wifi remote capability (or a device to read media in wireless from the NAS) but if the wifi connection is going to die at random... I should rethink my plans.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: wilburyan on October 11, 2010, 08:55:14 AM
I use WD20EADS with 1.09 firmware. I haven't set the drives for XP mode.

So far the only issues I have noted are (which might be generic to the DNS-323 rather than the drives):
* Copying many small files take forever. There seems to be extensive latency between files. Due to Samba?
* Sometimes there's something "lost in the translation" so that Windows 7 thinks it can't copy a large file. I have to restart the copy, and if the file is large enough (like 10 GB) it sometimes never will copy.

Cheers


EADS drives are not 4k... so your comment has nothing to do with this thread.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on October 11, 2010, 02:22:50 PM
Hi Jamie,

Is it normal that the wifi connection dies? I stream movies to my laptop and occasionally VLC stop reading the file with an error message and freezes. Can this be due to what you say?

I am planning to buy a TV with wifi remote capability (or a device to read media in wireless from the NAS) but if the wifi connection is going to die at random... I should rethink my plans.

Thank you.

I have no idea what causes it, but if I'm copying large files around on my laptops it sometimes happens. I usually get a "location is unavailable" or "semaphore timeout has expired" - whatever that means. It seems to disrupt the wireless connection for several seconds before I try again. Interestingly, it never happens when streaming 4-8GB ISO files through my Buffalo Nfiniti Wireless N Ethernet converter on the same network, same speed and SMB protocol. Go figure!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dosborne on October 11, 2010, 06:21:41 PM
In any case, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: lobotiger on October 12, 2010, 08:45:14 AM
Hey everyone.  I'm thinking of swapping my 2TB Western Digital Green (EADS) drive with 2x1TB Western Digital Blue drives (WD10EALS) and run them in RAID0.  I haven't seen any evidence of them working or not working in this setup but thought I'd check in here first.  My main beef is that the Green drive just seems a little too sluggish when transferring files back and forth at least compared to when I have a pair of 500GB Seagate drives in there in RAID1.  If the Blue drives work, do you think I'll see any kind of performance improvement?

Thanks.

LoboTiger
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: nowbie on October 18, 2010, 09:16:46 PM
Hi, i just bought my WD20EARS and also just learn about this problem..  ;-p

anyway the problem that i had is that the dns-323 ( f/w 1.08 ) had problem initializing the HDD. i could hear the HDD start spinning up and then stop and repeat several times before it stops completely.  The browser show that it didn't detect the drive.. 

Is this problem related to the 4K issue or is my drive half-dead??

Pls advice.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: grixx on October 19, 2010, 04:11:17 AM
Hi nowbie

This is probably not related to the 4k issue. I have experienced the same with one of my two drives and found that I have simply missed to connect the drive tight enough into his plug.
I suggest to open the front once more and check whether the drives are really fully inserted.

Regards,
grixx
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: samendolaro on October 26, 2010, 06:42:47 PM
OMG.. really...  I just purchased tewo of these as well.. Now I hope I can catch UPS and refuse them before they are left on my doorstep..   There hasn't been any activity from D-link on this subject for the past 6 monhs so I guess there is no hope.  Oddly the advertisement for the WD20EARS shows they are perfect for "Externnal" drives..  

I really can't fault WD on this one.  They manufacturer drives for PC's and although it would be in their best interest to help NAS manufacturers support their new technology they are not willing to dedicate their finincial resources to help others make money from it.  Especially since WD makes their own NAS devices .  Why help a competitor solve their problems.

 D-Link seems to be taking the exact same stand, "If you don't help us we won't support it"

Well 4k drives are here to stay .. make them work or be left behind by those who do...
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: samendolaro on October 27, 2010, 04:31:54 AM
After visiting the WD site  and looking at the WD20EARS FAQ they extensively speak about compatibility issues specificially with Linux and what is needed to fix them. Aparently the MAC annd Windows OS's are fine .

" distributions based on Linux 2.6.34, the latest stable version of Linux, will provide the most thorough support. Advanced Format parameters are available in the sysfs file system from this kernel version onwards. Kernel versions older than 2.6.31 will not specifically detect Advanced Format Drives, but with proper alignment the system performance will be maintained. "

Is it possible to actually update the Linux kernal ?  The last reference I saw was that the 323 was now using 2.6.12 (Updated from 2.6.6) so it is possible to upgrade, I just don't know what is llimiting them. So until they decide to implement 2.6.31 or later we are all SOL...
 

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5655&p_created=1278970702&p_sid=MTRfcxdk&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_srch=1&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTkxLDE5MSZwX3Byb2RzPTIyNywyOTQmcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PTIuMjk0JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1


So I don't know what else you want WD to do..  This seems to be in D-Links court since they are implementating Linux in the 323 and WD has made it clear that support comes from the lates versions only.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: wilburyan on October 27, 2010, 09:10:51 AM
If you have funplug and manually partition the disk (instead of using the DNS-323 stuff through the web interface) then you can effectively allign the drive so it can be used without a performance hit in a Single drive scenario. 

Raid is a little more complicated.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on October 27, 2010, 09:47:41 AM
There's been a lot of posts about this on here and specifically how to do it. External drives don't necessarily mean drives used in a NAS by the way. You'll find drives that are actually designed for use in RAID are enterprise drives and usually are more expensive.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: samendolaro on October 27, 2010, 11:05:40 AM
Yea I was looking at a Raid configuration and although external drives are not only NAS they do include NAS, but it is neither here nor there at this point..
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on October 27, 2010, 03:47:22 PM
Well the hard drive manufacturers will tell you that their desktop drives aren't designed for use, well, outside of a desktop. However, most people, including me, use desktop drives in their NAS even though this is the case.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: doninoz on October 31, 2010, 06:57:22 AM
There may be a lot of people out there who are suffering unnecessarily because they are using drives that are not compatible with NAS raid devices.

This is because dealers selling the NAS units know nothing about the way NAS systems operate.

My company has been doing some research on this matter for a couple of months and tested a whole range of NAS units. They ALL suffer with the same problem! They do not tolerate new technology that effectively fools “platters” in a disk that there is more space on it than it really has.

For instance, Western Digital is a good example with its Advanced Technology Format.

Advanced Format technology enables hard drive companies to read and write more data onto the same available space on the hard drive.

Advanced Format technology is being adopted by WD and other drive manufacturers to increase media format efficiency, thus enabling larger drive capacities…basically any drive that has migrated to 4K sectors should be avoided.

These typically “desktop” drives are really only made for Windows applications and associated formatting. They are not tolerated in UNIX/Linux based raid systems. In fact, as an aside issue, they will cause alignment problems for most users of any operating system less than Windows 7 (although some people might argue with me on that issue)…Microsoft has at least conceded that it will be an issue for XP.

You might get them formatted but find that down the track they will degrade to the extent that you can’t find a file, you can’t delete a file and find that copying copious amounts onto the system becomes impossible.

The best thing to do is to make sure that you research the types of drives before you buy a NAS device otherwise you might end up with drives that don’t work in the long run.

Here is a list of Western Digital that I know have this technology and should be avoided …

WD Caviar Green Desktop Hard Drives
640 GB WD6400AARS
800 GB WD8000AARS
1 TB WD10EARS
1.5 TB WD15EARS
2 TB WD20EARS

WD Scorpio Blue Mobile Hard Drives
750 GB WD7500KPVT
1 TB WD10TPVT

If you already have one of the above drives (typically ‘EARS’ series) you might try the following but make sure that your files are backed up.

Install a 2.54MM type jumper on pins 7 & 8 before installing the drive into a NAS system.

This puts the drive into compatibility mode.

This should improve performance in a NAS system since the partition starting on sector 63 is then fooled into using a sector (64) aligned on the 4k boundaries.

WARNING ! Installing a jumper on a drive that already contains data will likely result in data loss so back up your files first.

I have succeeded in doing this and have had file integrity for a couple of months. But as a professional system integrator and engineer, I will not recommend this to any of my clients.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: tamasksz on November 15, 2010, 06:20:29 AM
I have WD10EARS and works perfectly...  :)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: rhysee on November 22, 2010, 01:53:12 PM
I note the D-Link hard drive compatibilty for DNS323 shows the 2TB  WD20EADS  are ok ..

Has anyone used these  WD20EADS drives fine ?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: aar on November 30, 2010, 05:16:26 AM
I also was wondering this.

D-Link does say the EADS are supported - http://www.dlink.com/support/faq/?prod_id=2399

But then go on to say gotcha - http://www.dlink.com/support/faq/?prod_id=3526 - but I assume this is the EARS model.

From what I have read, I am guessing only in JBOD or RAID1. I currently run & wanted RAID0.

This review has them running OK in RAID1 mirrored

http://www.shaolintiger.com/2010/11/09/network-attached-storage-nas-2-bay-storage-enclosure-d-link-dns-323-4tb/

/bows
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: aar on November 30, 2010, 06:12:12 PM
Too add a few more comments:

I have been all over the WD site, but can't get any clear confirmation that EADS drives are 512 byte per sector.

I currently run Samsung spinpoints & they have been great.

This confirms the F3 are 512 bytes

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productmodel.do?group=&type=94&subtype=98&model_cd=513&ppmi=1219

The F4 are 4k

Think I will just get some F3's as the comment here says they work

http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_review.phtml?id=10&bid=7&id2=129&sid=55883
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: malouin on December 14, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
I have 2 WDears 1TB each in a mirored set , I get home today and they are both empty 900GB of data lost including a lot of pictures I mean 3 years worth of pictures. I guess WD with this box is kind od a NO NO , now I can't even restore the delete drives...I do not recommand this product the WD or DLINK 323

Michel
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on December 14, 2010, 12:39:49 PM
You may be able to recover data by attaching a drive to your computer and using a Windows Linux filesystem driver (assuming you are running Windows). Google ext2fsd.

You might try the scandisk facility in the web interface, and/or running manufactures diagnostics on the drives separately. The behaviour you describe is not typical of the NAS.

Always have a backup of your data, and don't use unsupported drives...
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: tentimes on December 26, 2010, 12:36:32 PM
OMG.. really...  I just purchased tewo of these as well.. Now I hope I can catch UPS and refuse them before they are left on my doorstep..   There hasn't been any activity from D-link on this subject for the past 6 monhs so I guess there is no hope.  Oddly the advertisement for the WD20EARS shows they are perfect for "Externnal" drives..  

I really can't fault WD on this one.  They manufacturer drives for PC's and although it would be in their best interest to help NAS manufacturers support their new technology they are not willing to dedicate their finincial resources to help others make money from it.  Especially since WD makes their own NAS devices .  Why help a competitor solve their problems.

 D-Link seems to be taking the exact same stand, "If you don't help us we won't support it"

Well 4k drives are here to stay .. make them work or be left behind by those who do...

This is a problem that is very, very easily fixed by dlink. I have already posted a workaround for it, which involves simply formatting the drive differently and updating one file. Dlink could do the same, but as I have learned at my expense over the last 4 years, owning several dlink products, they are VERY poor at supporting products once they move on to the next big thing. Having looked at the code for the 323 I suspect it was an outsourced job (modding some GPL code) and they can't be bothered going back to see how it works. If you program a little, are reasonably technical, and read my post on the mod necessary you will see just how easy it would be for them to fix this. They just couldn't care less as they have already sold the box to you. Personally speaking, I have stopped buying dlink now (after a 5 year stretch of being loyal). I build my own or spend the extra money for a supplier who supports their stuff properly.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: chillspace on January 12, 2011, 08:28:25 AM
Just reporting in that I was able to align the partitions on two WD20EARS drives using the Paragon Alignment Tool. Both installed nicely and have transferred files over. Able to sustain a write speed of 12-18MB/s to the EXT3 formatted drives. Had to spend a tiny bit more money on the drive utilities used but it was a good investment as I know I'll be using them quite a bit down the road.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: ikak on January 20, 2011, 05:26:23 PM
I recently purchased 4 WD20EARS with the plan to replace 2 smaller drives in my DNS-323 (firmware 1.09) and to put 2 drives into probox HF2-SU3S2 (eSATA attached 4 bay enclosure) for backup. I've had this DNS-323 for over a year but did recently upgrade the firmaware in anticipation of installing 2tb drives.
I installed the two new WD drives and configured them as JBOD. All was well at first after days of loading my files to the DNS-323. I tried running the backup from the DNS to the probox and after about 80% there was a drive error on the DNS-323 and when I rebooted it, it didn't recognize one of the inserted drives. I ran data lifegaurd diagnostic tool against the drive and sure enough it failed. Took it back and got a new drive, went thru the same setup/copy and then again during the backup it failed. This time the DNS-323 could still recognize both drives but seemed to get a consistent error on a specific file I read/copied/backed up. I removed both drives, ran diagnostics against them and they both failed the short and long tests. Meanwhile the two drives I installed in the probox are working fine(read/write) and the diag utility finds no problems.
I now end my sad story with a question, does the DNS-323 damage the drive or is the issue that is being described in these posts limited to loosing data while installed in the DNS-323 but the same drive works fine installed in a desktop?

Andrew
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: bjdo on January 25, 2011, 01:31:45 PM
4K sector drives are more efficient

Most OS:s cannot handle 4K sectors

Diskmanufactures solve this by adding 512b sector similation software in their HDs.

Simulation software 4K -512K needs disks formating aligned in order work efficient.

Newer versions of linux and win7 can handle 4K sectors, still no diskmodels will expose the true 4K sectors without the useless simulation software, as far as I know. Dns-323 running debian would be able to handle true 4K disks if such disks existed.

   

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: MJBURNS on February 01, 2011, 10:54:39 AM
What is most frustrating about this is the issue is with the NAS OS, not the drives. The drives adhere to the SATA standards.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: ericj on February 01, 2011, 11:18:50 AM
What is most frustrating about this is the issue is with the NAS OS, not the drives. The drives adhere to the SATA standards.

Yes, the drive OS needs to be updated. All of the major NAS manufacturers have updated their respective OS's to support AF drives (Synology, QNAP, etc). They even support the new 3TB drives. Anyway, Dlink needs to update the Linux kernel. Hopefully, we'll see that with v1.10 of the firmware.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 15, 2011, 07:14:21 PM
So I just received my DNS-323 today and 2-2TB WD20EARS HDD's as recommended by Dell.  After reading all of the forums am I to understand that my best bet is to return the HDD and replace them with something else?  I have 30 days to do so.  I had already put them in and configured them in a RAID-1 with no issues.  There is not data on it yet so it wont be a problem to send them back.  I just want a system that I can hold my family pictures, videos, etc.  Plus I am hoping I can play my videos right off that drive without issue.  Feedback?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: pearljam45 on February 16, 2011, 07:45:07 AM
Yes, return them.

I noticed that amazon also recommends the EARS drives...
Too bad they don't do their homework.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on February 16, 2011, 10:39:26 AM
We will be supporting 4k drives next firmware release. So hopefully soon enough we can put this thread to rest :).
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 16, 2011, 05:16:24 PM
How soon.  I was authorized to return the two drives today and I can send them back, but if you are telling me that you are releasing a firmware to support them shortly, I will hold on to them.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: pearljam45 on February 16, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
Wow.
Great news.
I guess it's official?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 17, 2011, 06:34:28 AM
We will be supporting 4k drives next firmware release. So hopefully soon enough we can put this thread to rest :).

Unfortunately the last time I heard this it took over a year.  Let's hope for the best!
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on February 17, 2011, 10:01:29 AM
I expect a beta firmware with support tomorrow or early next week. I wouldn't hold off on returning drives if you feel you can not wait but I plan to release the next firmware in a few weeks to a month (still needs full lab testing).

I will release it as beta for those that wish to try it as soon as it is available.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 17, 2011, 12:36:03 PM
I will gladly test it for you.  I will look for the beta.  Thanks
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 17, 2011, 01:03:31 PM
Intersting...after only a few hours of formatting my WD20EARS drives into a 2TB RAID-1, this happened.

(http://www.surgesoft.com/images/dns323.jpg)


-1 MB available.  Hmmm....  Can't access.  Can't reformat.  Nothing.  I am restarting it now to see what happens.  :-)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 17, 2011, 01:17:33 PM
After restarting the box, all was well again.  That's weird.

(http://www.surgesoft.com/images/dns323b.jpg)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: ericj on February 20, 2011, 10:01:11 PM
We will be supporting 4k drives next firmware release. So hopefully soon enough we can put this thread to rest :).

It's good that they're finally getting up to speed considering all of the major HD manufacturers have already switched over to 4k format drives. There was no avoiding it.

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: fri on February 22, 2011, 03:34:03 AM
Hi all,
my 1st post here.
Based on WD EARS issues and the fact that wd20eads is becoming not so easy to find, could you from d-link team please update the list of 2TB HDDs DNS-323 compatible? The list of compatible HD posted in this forum dates 2007 (!!).
Tks
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jc777 on February 22, 2011, 08:27:28 AM
anybody had tried and confirmed that the guide by dcmwai works for RAID 1 on WD EARS AFT hdds? i have gotten a DNS-320 but there is no section for DNS-320.

is it still necessary to short jumper pins 7-8? or can just shorting the jumper pins 7-8 works without going through the guide?
@DAFILKOV01
Problems will start appearing later on, not right off the bat. By that time, you will have data you will need to move, making fixing it more difficult. I strongly suggest you format properly in the beginning, before reaching that point.

Timezlicer, dcmwai and myself wrote guides on formatting properly. Mine is here: http://www.consumedconsumer.org/2010/06/upgrading-my-dns-323-to-2-x-2-tb-ii_08.html
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 22, 2011, 08:34:04 AM
I am currently running 2-2TB WD20EARS drives in a RAID-1 configuration.  There are working now.  Perhaps not to the best of there ability, and perhaps not for long.  There are however active.  Once we receive the 1.10 firmware update I am hoping to re-format (if necessary) the HDD's and start using it with confidence.  At least that's the plan.  :-)

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jc777 on February 22, 2011, 08:41:36 AM
are you also using DNS-320?

how did you set up? using the dcmwai guide? or the NAS default web utility? did you short jumper pins 7-8?

looking at 2TB hdd and WD20EARS in particular. hope to get it within next 2 days and configure them to run RAID 1 without problems.
I am currently running 2-2TB WD20EARS drives in a RAID-1 configuration.  There are working now.  Perhaps not to the best of there ability, and perhaps not for long.  There are however active.  Once we receive the 1.10 firmware update I am hoping to re-format (if necessary) the HDD's and start using it with confidence.  At least that's the plan.  :-)


Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 22, 2011, 09:01:36 AM
Oh...I apologize, I thought you were using a DNS-323 as this is the correct forum for it.  In my case I simply used the web utility and set the RAID.  I did not short jumper the pins.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jc777 on February 22, 2011, 08:45:46 PM
it's ok, there is no 320 subforum, so i have to ask here. i am wondering if shorting jumper pins 7-8 does make the AFT hdd emulate as non-AFT and thus able to use without much customisation. anybody know?
Oh...I apologize, I thought you were using a DNS-323 as this is the correct forum for it.  In my case I simply used the web utility and set the RAID.  I did not short jumper the pins.

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 23, 2011, 09:33:15 AM
I expect a beta firmware with support tomorrow or early next week. I wouldn't hold off on returning drives if you feel you can not wait but I plan to release the next firmware in a few weeks to a month (still needs full lab testing).

I will release it as beta for those that wish to try it as soon as it is available.

Any news?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on February 23, 2011, 09:41:04 AM
Still waiting on engineering. They have to change format process flows so I would rather they didn't rush and make mistakes. :)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on February 23, 2011, 10:15:21 AM
Still waiting on engineering. They have to change format process flows so I would rather they didn't rush and make mistakes. :)

Good idea.  Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jc777 on February 23, 2011, 04:16:00 PM
I am currently using DNS-320 with 2 x 2TB WD20EARS in RAID 1 config with both hdds jumpers 7-8 shorted. Is there any impact on using the new firmware? e.g. can I just upgrade the firmware straight with the current RAID 1 hdd or do I have to backup all data and reformat them totally? Thanks.
Still waiting on engineering. They have to change format process flows so I would rather they didn't rush and make mistakes. :)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: smokefree on February 23, 2011, 07:15:31 PM
I've read though this post (all 8 pages of it!!!), and I was hoping someone could clarify if I can safely go out and buy a new WD20EADS for use in RAID 1 mode in the DNS323? 

My confusion is caused by the following conflicting information:
1. D-Link says that the drive is compatible (but this hasn't been updated lately)
2. Posts stating a drive without TLER will likely get kicked off of RAID an error occurs
3. WD "recently" crippled the firmware to disable TLER

Can someone please confirm the stability and reliability of this configuration? 

Thanks

For the record, I have had a pair of WD10EADS (manufactured January 2009 - Drive S/Ns : WCAU4947xxxx) that has performed very nicely since May of 2009.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jasonsbx on February 24, 2011, 12:38:49 AM
I've read though this post (all 8 pages of it!!!), and I was hoping someone could clarify if I can safely go out and buy a new WD20EADS for use in RAID 1 mode in the DNS323? 

My confusion is caused by the following conflicting information:
1. D-Link says that the drive is compatible (but this hasn't been updated lately)
2. Posts stating a drive without TLER will likely get kicked off of RAID an error occurs
3. WD "recently" crippled the firmware to disable TLER

Can someone please confirm the stability and reliability of this configuration? 

Thanks

For the record, I have had a pair of WD10EADS (manufactured January 2009 - Drive S/Ns : WCAU4947xxxx) that has performed very nicely since May of 2009.


I believe  the TLER issue has been answered elsewhere basically in these devices it doesn't impact presumably cause its software raid.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: scaramanga on February 24, 2011, 02:48:53 AM
I've read though this post (all 8 pages of it!!!), and I was hoping someone could clarify if I can safely go out and buy a new WD20EADS for use in RAID 1 mode in the DNS323? 

My confusion is caused by the following conflicting information:
1. D-Link says that the drive is compatible (but this hasn't been updated lately)
2. Posts stating a drive without TLER will likely get kicked off of RAID an error occurs
3. WD "recently" crippled the firmware to disable TLER

Can someone please confirm the stability and reliability of this configuration? 

Thanks

For the record, I have had a pair of WD10EADS (manufactured January 2009 - Drive S/Ns : WCAU4947xxxx) that has performed very nicely since May of 2009.

I cannot confirm, just point you to this post I made a while back: http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=16049.msg92529#msg92529
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: smokefree on February 25, 2011, 02:19:51 AM
Thanks for the reply scaramanga

That still leaves the burning question that has been central to this thread.... What does one do for a 2TB drive in the DNS323?

If a WD10EADS manufactured in Jan 2009 works fine (which it seems to after 1.5+ years) will a currently sold (and I would assume much later manufacture date) WD20EADS work?

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: pearljam45 on March 02, 2011, 09:08:16 AM
In fact, the WD20EADS is one of the few drives officially supported by the DNS-323

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=672.0
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on March 03, 2011, 02:25:06 PM
That still leaves the burning question that has been central to this thread.... What does one do for a 2TB drive in the DNS323?

Upgrade to 1.10 beta firmware or wait for the official release ;)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: F1uX on March 03, 2011, 03:02:30 PM
After the firmware upgrade should we reformat the drives for enabling the 4k sector support?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on March 03, 2011, 03:39:26 PM
You MUST reformat the drives in order to format as 4K. It can not convert it.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: strevellick on March 03, 2011, 05:05:01 PM
Using the GUI on the DNS-323, will reformatting using the RAID-1 setting use the 4K format?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: jamieburchell on March 04, 2011, 06:09:40 AM
Using the GUI on the DNS-323, will reformatting using the RAID-1 setting use the 4K format?

Considering there isn't any other way to format the drives, I would say yes.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Pete80 on March 18, 2011, 04:43:29 AM
hi. sorry to ask a dumb question but where do i download the 1.10 beta firmware from?
could someone post a link please  ;D
I want to try my 2 x WD20EARS with this firmware before i send them back to the shop.
thanks
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Sneak on March 18, 2011, 12:37:47 PM
Not dumb.
ftp://ftp.dlink.com/Multimedia/dns323/Beta/Firmware/

I am waiting to buy 2 TB drives for my DNS-323 until I hear whether or not the new firmware does support Advanced Format drives.  Love the price on the EARS.

Please let us know your results?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: vintech21 on March 19, 2011, 08:46:09 PM
Hi, could anyone assist please? I got a problem format my WD20EARS harddisk.

"Hard Drive(s) Formatting Failure. (Error Code:02)"

Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: andrew190 on March 29, 2011, 09:39:44 PM
I've been wanting to upgrade my hard drives for more than a year but have been prevented because of the WD AFT 2TB issues.

I understand that 1.10 will resolve this, does anyone know if the current beta release of 1.10 (release 06 as of the 30th March) has this fixed?

I intend on buying a WD EARS 2TB drive, upgrading to 1.10, resetting to factory defaults and formatting the new drive. I really don't want to have to repeat the process weeks (months?) later when the official 1.10 comes out.

Can anyone confirm that the current 1.10 (rel. 06) beta release has resolved the 2TB AFT issue?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: eclipse23 on April 06, 2011, 04:08:20 PM
Quote
Can anyone confirm that the current 1.10 (rel. 06) beta release has resolved the 2TB AFT issue?

I'd love to know the answer to this, too, as I've got a crippled NAS that I'm about to restore with a WD 2TB EARS, and I'd like to know if I can do this on the current beta firmware or if I should wait for the official 1.10.

Furthermore, if it's best to wait, any word on when the official release will come out?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: ddalley on April 18, 2011, 01:23:21 PM
Still waiting on engineering. They have to change format process flows so I would rather they didn't rush and make mistakes. :)
It's been a few months since this was posted, so can we get an update, please?

I just bought a second DNS-323 and want to put 2 2Tb drives in it. I thought I read a review of this Seagate drive that indicated that it could work with older systems, but if the 1.10 firmware is going to be able to handle it, I will postpone getting drives now.

http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_barracuda_green_2tb_review_st2000dl003

This link (http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?name=st2000dl003-bcuda-green-sata-6gb-2tb-hd&vgnextoid=add6439d45c0b210VgnVCM1000001a48090aRCRD&locale=en-US&pf=1) indicates that the drive can be used in networked storage applications.

I looked for up-to-date resources here that indicated which drives were OK, but they don't seem to be readily available or, at least, not obvious. The stickied compatible drive list is from 2007! D-Link's tech support indicated all drives were OK now, too.

Is there a web page that describes the 1.10 firmware beta and its new functions?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Steve Pitts on April 22, 2011, 05:10:04 AM
The stickied compatible drive list is from 2007!
To be fair, it was updated in May 2010, albeit that that is still some time ago.

Quote from: ddalley
Is there a web page that describes the 1.10 firmware beta and its new functions?
Don't know about a web page, but this post would seem to fit the bill:

Beta Firmware 1.10 Build 07 Release Notes (updated 04/12/2011) (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=5485.0)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: phase9 on April 27, 2011, 07:35:09 PM
I just installed v1.10b7
I confirm that it still does NOT work for WD15EARS Western Digital 1.5TB drives.

When I plug in my WD15EARS -00MVWB0 drive, the square light infront of the DNS-323 continues to flash forever.  When I remove it and put in my Seagate 1.5TB drive, the light stops and I eventually find the drive using the Easy Search Utility.  My DNS-323 shows up with IP 192.168.0.32.  I find my Seagate 1.5TB drive connected.

When I have my WD15EARS drive in the DNS-323, the Easy Search Utility never finds any device.

I really wonder if I should buy a different 1.5TB drive.  Or just sit and wait for the official release of v1.10 firmware.  Hopefully DLINK can fix this problem in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Steve Pitts on April 27, 2011, 10:28:59 PM
I confirm that it still does NOT work for WD15EARS Western Digital 1.5TB drives
Which is rather odd because it works (albeit I'm using build 5 of the beta 1.10 firmware) fine here with a WD20EARS, which you would you expect to share any issues with its smaller cousins.

Quote from: phase9
When I have my WD15EARS drive in the DNS-323, the Easy Search Utility never finds any device
I could never get Easy Search to find the device, even when it had no disk drives in it, but if it works for you with the other HD in then it suggests that the unit isn't finishing its start up processing. Was the drive already formatted?? If not, have you tried doing so (by temporarily installing it in a PC)?? If it was, have you tried deleting any existing partitions??
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on April 28, 2011, 11:54:21 AM
I just installed v1.10b7
I confirm that it still does NOT work for WD15EARS Western Digital 1.5TB drives.

When I plug in my WD15EARS -00MVWB0 drive, the square light infront of the DNS-323 continues to flash forever.  When I remove it and put in my Seagate 1.5TB drive, the light stops and I eventually find the drive using the Easy Search Utility.  My DNS-323 shows up with IP 192.168.0.32.  I find my Seagate 1.5TB drive connected.

When I have my WD15EARS drive in the DNS-323, the Easy Search Utility never finds any device.

I really wonder if I should buy a different 1.5TB drive.  Or just sit and wait for the official release of v1.10 firmware.  Hopefully DLINK can fix this problem in a few weeks.

Whatever issue you are having there is unrelated to AFT. Have you tried removing all partitions on the drive from your PC and re-inserting in the NAS?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Clayton on May 04, 2011, 01:05:00 PM
Hi, I am looking at replacing my 2TB Seagate drives for 2 Seagate Barracuda XT 3TB 7200RPM SATA3 6Gb/s with NCQ 64MB Cache drives, would this work ok in RAID1?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: ctvxl on May 05, 2011, 09:43:03 PM
Hi, I am looking at replacing my 2TB Seagate drives for 2 Seagate Barracuda XT 3TB 7200RPM SATA3 6Gb/s with NCQ 64MB Cache drives, would this work ok in RAID1?



The Seagate 3TB drives should work just fine (though I haven't tested those particular drives in it myself so can't say 100% for sure)  However, the DNS-323 will only 'see' 2TB per drive because it does not currently support GPT partition tables.  It still uses MBR, which has a limit of just slightly over 2TB
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: shana on May 18, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
Dumb question...what are GPT partitions?

_____

mexico dentist (http://www.americandentaltours.com/)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Steve Pitts on May 19, 2011, 12:39:05 AM
what are GPT partitions?
Google is your friend, but in a nutshell the older MBR (Master Boot Record) partition table limits partitions to just under 2.2TB whereas GPT (GUID Partition Table) removes that limitation (replacing it with one that is unlikely to be an issue for a very, very long time - if ever)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Clayton on May 19, 2011, 01:11:14 AM
Pointless putting in a 3TB drive to only get another 200MB of extra space, will the new DNS-320 and/or DNS-325 NAS take the 3TB drives?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: D-Link Multimedia on May 19, 2011, 09:14:03 AM
Pointless putting in a 3TB drive to only get another 200MB of extra space, will the new DNS-320 and/or DNS-325 NAS take the 3TB drives?


Yes. I already have firmware that supports 3TB drives for the DNS-320/DNS-325 but I have not released it into the beta queue just yet. Working out some other issues.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Clayton on May 19, 2011, 05:53:17 PM
I want to get the DNS-343 will I be able to use 3TB drives in that unit? or will I need to upgrade the divice to a later model?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Linhares on May 30, 2011, 03:21:28 AM
Yes. I already have firmware that supports 3TB drives for the DNS-320/DNS-325 but I have not released it into the beta queue just yet. Working out some other issues.
Sorry to ask, but how are the beta versions tested? internally? or are also the beta we see sometimes?
Have the team consider to release the source to improve development (as consider under GPL) ?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: KOTULCN on July 29, 2011, 05:21:11 PM
I currently have have one of these in my 323:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284)

But I want to upgrade to two 2TB drives. I am backing up the current drive as I don't want to lose any data but I am unclear what hard drive to get. I'm not 100% clear on the different RAID setups and what they do. I use my 323 at home with a few computers and to stream media to my XBOX 360 & PS3. What drive & configuration would you recommend?
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Newbie06 on August 11, 2011, 06:31:51 PM
I just installed v1.10b7
I confirm that it still does NOT work for WD15EARS Western Digital 1.5TB drives.

When I plug in my WD15EARS -00MVWB0 drive, the square light infront of the DNS-323 continues to flash forever.  When I remove it and put in my Seagate 1.5TB drive, the light stops and I eventually find the drive using the Easy Search Utility.  My DNS-323 shows up with IP 192.168.0.32.  I find my Seagate 1.5TB drive connected.

When I have my WD15EARS drive in the DNS-323, the Easy Search Utility never finds any device.

I really wonder if I should buy a different 1.5TB drive.  Or just sit and wait for the official release of v1.10 firmware.  Hopefully DLINK can fix this problem in a few weeks.

I just installed the V7 of 1.10 beta firmware and it is working for me with two different WD 2TB drives.  One drives is the WD20EADS and the other is the WD20EARS.  I did format them as standard, so two separate volumes, as opposed to RAID.

Working fine so far...copying data back over now from my other backup drive.  I already setup the printer function and it works fine.  I'll be testing the iTunes functionality in a short while once my music finishes copying over to the DNS-323.
Title: RAID support Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: marki555 on September 07, 2011, 08:21:59 AM
In fact, WD does support the WD20EARX in consumer RAID applications. Don't know how it was in the past, but the drive specs - http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701229.pdf - say this:
Quote
Desktop / Consumer RAID Environments - WD Caviar Green Hard Drives are tested and recommended for use in consumer-type RAID applications (RAID-0 / RAID-1).
- Business Critical RAID Environments – WD Caviar Green Hard Drives are not recommended for and are not warranted for use in RAID environments utilizing Enterprise HBAs and/or expanders and in multi-bay chassis, as they are not designed for, nor tested in, these specific types of RAID applications. For all Business Critical RAID applications, please consider WD’s Enterprise Hard Drives that are specifically designed with RAID-specific, time-limited error recovery (TLER), are tested extensively in 24x7 RAID applications, and include features like
enhanced RAFF technology and thermal extended burn-in testing.
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: AMPatrick on September 30, 2011, 09:46:39 PM
1. Loaded my DNS-323 NAS firmware using FW version 1.10b7 (beta).
2. Installed two WD20EARS (Advanced Format drives - ie: 4k sectors).
3. Formatted both - took awhile but it did finish and then asked for a restart.
4. Configured for RAID 1 - took awhile (about half-an-hour) but it did finish.
5. Added users and folders and setup the access permissions - worked fine.
6. Used the built-in "Scheduled Download" to move my videos / movies from other servers to my DNS-323.
7. Worked like a charm and ran like the hammers of hell - glad I've got gig-e interconnects.
8. The updated AV server (DLNA 1.5 compatible) works like charm - no problem streaming videos to my DLNA compliant media receivers from my DNS-323.
9. Initial testing shows that I can get transfer speeds of 12 - 16 Mbytes/sec using gig-e interconnects and writing to my DNS-323 by pushing files from my windows box.

Looks like D-link has got this box working sensibly with Advanced Format Drives.  Now WD rates the WD20EARS at 110 Mbytes/sec sustained transfer rate.  The SATA interface for this drive is rated at 3 Gbits/sec and that rate should easily sustain full speed transfer to the drive.  I've got gig-e connections routed through the LAN side of a D-link DGL-4500 high-end router.  Gig-e connections should handle about 100 to 110 Mbytes/sec sustained (assuming little else is happening on the wire).  The windows box I was using to push the test files was showing about 15% CPU utilization and was not doing anything else - so it was not a bottleneck.  So it would appear that the DNS-323 hardware / firmware was the bottleneck in this test (probably it's processor speed, but also maybe the way it handles the 4K sectors with RAID turned on).  So it looks like the DNS-323 tops out at about 12-16 MBytes/sec transfer rate with WD AFT drives.

All in all, I am very satisfied.  I hope D-link releases an official (non-beta) release of the firmware soon.


Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dividedhighw on October 04, 2011, 01:03:56 PM
@AMPatrick - thanks for sharing your experience ... VERY useful!!  :)

I've gotten the impression on this forum that people are downgrading back to v1.09 after formatting AFT drives with v1.10b7.  Just wondering why you decided NOT to do this?

I'm considering installing a pair of ST2000DL003 drives (RAID 1) into my newly purchased DNS-323, so looking for info/advice.

TIA!
DH
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: AMPatrick on October 07, 2011, 01:55:28 AM
@dividedhighw - Since I have my DNS-323 configured for Raid-1 and am running AFT drives should I downgrade back to v1.09 and have a disk failure I might not be able to recover.  V1.09 won't format a replacement AFT disk and auto-recover the Raid...  So I continue to run with V1.10b7  (Kinda defeats the purpose of using Raid-1 with AFT drives unless you stick with V1.10b7)

So far I have not have had any problems with V1.10b7 (other than the D-Link Yahoo Widget won't install but I suspect that may not be a V1.10b7 problem).  I did load the beta version of the BitTorrent and NFS addons.  The beta version of BitTorrent did correct some problems with the way the BitTorrent application works.

BTW: If you "click" on the link for "D-Link Multimedia" (the forum name used by the TECH ENGINEER supporting the DNS-32x series) and look at his last post, you will find out his name is Aaron and that he left the employ of D-Link on June 15th.  This probably explains why V1.10b7 has remained "frozen" for so long and why we are not seeing "official" firmware based on 1.10 beta series.  This is really too bad, looks like Aaron was also working on WebDav access for this device so it could be easily accessed from the internet.  That would have been a nice addon...

CIAO - AMP
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dividedhighw on October 08, 2011, 05:23:00 PM
I would really like to stick with 1.10b7 also, rather than downgrade.  Many thanks @AMPatrick! :)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: dividedhighw on October 18, 2011, 10:14:11 AM
Finally did it!!  See my update here:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=39987.msg146207#msg146207 (http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=39987.msg146207#msg146207)

Still hoping to avoid a FW downgrade to v1.09 but looks like it's inevitable.  If I have a failure and need to reformat a new AFT drive, I'm assuming I can re-upgrade to v1.10b7 beforehand.  (Please correct me if I'm wrong for any reason!)

Of course, any info/advice very much appreciated.

DH  :)
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: TJMB on January 06, 2012, 09:26:38 AM
Hi everyone, new forum member here. :)

I've had a DNS-323 running with two 750GB drives in RAID 1 configuration for a couple of years now. I recently had one of the drives fail and decided that as long as I was replacing a drive, I'd start a transition to 1.5TB drives.

So, I ordered two WD15EURS drives and was already in the process of rebuilding the array before finding all this info about advanced format drives.

The array rebuilt and seems to be working fine so far, though I haven't yet thoroughly tested it. At this point I'm running with one of my original WD7500AADS drives and one WD15EURS.

After reading through this forum about the AF drive issues and the long awaited official release of firmware v1.10, I have a few questions that I'm hoping you can help me with...



Thanks in advance for any help. I'm glad to have found this forum!

Best,
Tom
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: Biscotte on January 06, 2012, 10:53:01 AM
Take a look at this

http://forum.dsmg600.info/viewtopic.php?id=6770

I, like many others, only use the latest beta to format ears drives
Title: Re: Western Digital Advanced Format Drives - Read before you buy!
Post by: john48 on July 24, 2012, 06:10:06 AM
One of my WD 750GB RAID 1 drives has just failed and I thought to change to a WD10EALX Caviar BLue 1TB.
Until I read this forum. I went to the firmware download for 1.10 only to find a warning that this only works on USA devices my DNS323 was purchased in Europe and the latest firmware on the UK site is 1.08.
Does anyone know how I can go forward?