D-Link Wireless Access Points For Business > DAP-2590
DLink 2590 radio reset
Zac:
Yes, I know it's the DAP-2553 board, but I don't see any place for DAP-2590 specific messages. Sorry.
I am experiencing random total disconnects (every client dropped at the same time) with my DAP-2590. Tech support has suggested that I should:
* reduce power to as low as will still let me connect reliably
* turn off extra features (like short GI, IGMP snooping, bandwidth limits, &c)
* change from my preferred band at 5.2GHz to the over-crowded 2.4GHz band
* relocate the unit so it is not near so many 2.4GHz stations (my neighbours' several WiFi networks)
(despite the fact that I use it in 5.2GHz specifically because of the local 2.4GHz clutter)
* try connecting with more clients
* try connecting with other brand or model WiFi adapters
(have tried with Intel (two models) and Broadcom (one model), don't have any other brand WiFi adapters)
None of that has worked (I can not relocate it away from my neighbours, so I don't know if that would have worked, but I have tried nearly everything else that has occurred to me). Windows 7 will not connect to it if I turn off WMM, but I have disabled all of the other features above basic wireless (except encryption and authentication, which I refuse to disable).
What I see in the logs looks like normal behaviour except that every so often (at least daily but in some cases it is only a couple hours apart) there will appear an entry "Initiate wireless success" that occurs within a few seconds of when the connections to all my clients are lost. These "Initiate wireless success" log entries do not occur near other log entries that are indicative of the device rebooting entirely -- they are right in the normal flow of things, often it looks like this (omitting the MAC addresses):
Nov 17 05:26:20 [Wireless] 4-way handshake success:STA [mac address]
Nov 17 05:25:17 [Wireless] Association Success:STA [mac address]
... omitting a bunch of association success with handshake fail pairs ...
Nov 17 05:17:00 [Wireless] Initiate Wireless success
Nov 17 05:12:01 [Wireless] Group key update success:STA [mac address]
Nov 17 05:12:00 [Wireless] Group key update success:STA [mac address]
Nov 17 05:02:01 [Wireless] Group key update success:STA [mac address]
Nov 17 05:02:00 [Wireless] Group key update success:STA [mac address]
So it is operating along, doing its job, then suddenly the radio is restarted. Clients eventually reconnect (usually must be told to disconnect and then reconnect) and then things seem normal for a while -- at least until it decides to reset the radio again.
Tech support claims to have "never heard of" an issue with the DAP-2590 dropping connections.
Eventually, I was told by tech support that this is probably the radio resetting because of all the nearby 2.4GHz stations (between seven and ten depending upon conditions and which PC is scanning), even though I specifically operate this unit in the 5.2GHz band to avoid that interference. I am the only person within range using 5.2GHz. Tech support asserts that the radio still *receives* at 2.4GHz even when it is set to 5.2GHz (the ability to turn the radio off on dual radio units only affects transmit, not receive, and the same applies to single radio units -- by setting the radio to use 5.2GHz I only set where it transmits, it still receives both bands). Frankly, I think this assertion is bogus, and their pre-sales support seems to think so too; they sent me back to tier 3 support to get clarification about why I was deliberately looking for a unit that specifically DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY to work at 2.4GHz (to avoid the stupid radio reset from interference problem).
I have an older DLink 802.11a access point that I really like (a DWL-7100AP) and it has never suffered this sort of problem, even though it also can operate at 2.4GHz as an 802.11b/g access point (I still only use it at 5.4GHz, but have had it disconnected while trying to debug the problem with the DAP-2590). I have another brand 802.11n unit (a router) that operates quite well, not suffering the radio problem (but it has problems dealing with my network since it is a router and not an access point).
I still normally use the DWL-7100AP, but was hoping to upgrade to support 802.11n.
I have tried multiple firmware versions and get the same problems. I have iterated through a number of configurations, all different around some detail or other on the Wireless settings or Performance settings page, as well as turning off pretty much everything else. I continue to get unwarranted "Initiate wireless success" log messages at about the time all my clients lose connectivity.
I have discussed the issue with DLink technical support three times, and their answer is to get another unit with dual radios. I have tried to get DLink pre-sales support to suggest a unit that either does not have 2.4GHz capability or has the 2.4GHz and 5.2GHz antennae separate so that I can terminate the 2.4GHz antennae in a way that will prevent the unit receiving interference (or at least should sharply reduce the amount it sees) from the neighbours' networks that all operate at 2.4GHz, but they have no suggestions for such an alternative; the best idea they can offer is that I should try the DWL-2690AP.
I don't mind paying $300 for an access point (would rather pay less but the less expensive units are too often cheaply made router-only units), but do want it to work -- and nearly perfectly. I am not willing to pay $600 or more for an access point, and particularly not from the same company whose $300 access point can't hold connections for several hours and whose support seems (perhaps) evasive.
DLink denies there is an issue with the unit, but too often when a little searching I see odd disconnection issues around this model, in addition to other bugs (for example, support for VLANs apparently does not work, but I do not need that).
I am not willing to let my money go to waste on a beta level product, so I will be returning mine if I can not resolve this problem shortly (within a few days, so I can still get a full refund from the seller). Since DLink tech support suggests I avoid the 2.4GHz interference and DLink pre-sales support can not offer me a model where this is a possibility, I must unhappily seek other brands.
Zac:
Rolling back to 1.13 firmware (from the 1.20 firmware) does not help. I still get disconnects of all clients at once, and an 'Initiate wireless success' message at the same time in the log.
FurryNutz:
Zac,
This seems like that the DAP is having problem due to over congestion of the surrounding area with other Wifi networks and radios. One guy is expereincing the same issues with his DIR-855 in a apartment complex:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=41071.0
Have used InSSIDer to see what networks are surrounding you and what channels they are using and if there are any open ones?
It's seems like you have done alot to narrow down the cause of this and the DAP still seems to be having trouble. I really feel this could a due to external interferences and clutter.
Even in 5Ghz mode, the unit still cuts out? Are there any other 5Ghz radios around?
How about any phone devices that run 5Ghz or even 2.4Ghz?
Any chance of taking this DAP unit to a different location, like home, friend for families place for a temp test to see if it works else where?
Keep us posted.
Zac:
--- Quote from: FurryNutz on November 18, 2011, 07:42:52 AM ---This seems like that the DAP is having problem due to over congestion of the surrounding area with other Wifi networks and radios. One guy is expereincing the same issues with his DIR-855 in a apartment complex:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=41071.0
Have used InSSIDer to see what networks are surrounding you and what channels they are using and if there are any open ones?
--- End quote ---
No, but I see a bunch (several to ten usually, depending upon which PC I use, the time of day, phase of the moon, alignment of the planets, &c) when I scan for wireless networks with the Intel tools or the built-in support from Windows XP or Windows 7. I'm the only one running with SSID not broadcast, but this setting also has no apparent effect upon the DAP-2590 radio resets. If I set the PC to limit itself to 2.4GHz (802.11b/g/n), I still see the other networks. If I set the PC to limit itself to 5GHz (802.11a/n) then I see nobody else.
I'll look at some of these other tools, but have no idea what good it will do me to know who else is cluttering 2.4GHz when I want to operate exclusively at 5GHz. Maybe there is somebody else at 5GHz, but 802.11b/g are 2.4GHz only and 802.11n 5GHz is not common yet (and may never be if people are put off by paying an extra $10 on a $1000 laptop for a dual-band card, but I'm not complaining about *that*).
--- Quote from: FurryNutz on November 18, 2011, 07:42:52 AM ---It's seems like you have done alot to narrow down the cause of this and the DAP still seems to be having trouble. I really feel this could a due to external interferences and clutter.
Even in 5Ghz mode, the unit still cuts out? Are there any other 5Ghz radios around?
How about any phone devices that run 5Ghz or even 2.4Ghz?
--- End quote ---
I have one (probably would call it antique) cordless phone that (I think) runs at about 800MHz. It far predates the gigahertz plus phones.
The DAP-2590 cuts out about the same in either band. Not only that, it is slower in 2.4GHz mode because of all the nearby clutter (naturally).
I only want it in 5GHz mode, and don't care about 2.4GHz because of all the nearby clutter (besides, 802.11n in 2.4GHz is bogus -- 802.1n requires two clear non-overlapping 40MHz channels to actually get anywhere near its spec, and supposedly there are *exactly* two non-overlapping 40MHz channels in the US 2.4GHz range, but these channels overlap a bunch of the other channels used by 802.11b and 802.11g and cordless phones and RF remotes and probably bluetooth and almost certainly other stuff (not to mention microwave ovens!), so even finding a single clear 40MHz channel is nearly impossible).
As far as I can tell, I am the only person within range using *any* 5GHz WiFi devices, but I don't have a way to tell if there are *other types* of systems using the range (no, directional tunable RF meters are not part of my usual diagnostic kit). This is the first time I've even thought I might need one.
I chose this unit because I *avoid* 2.4GHz like the plague (too crowded), and this unit has 5GHz capability without also paying extra (another $300!) for a second radio at 2.4GHz that I will almost certainly never use (in, for example, the DAP-2690). I have been sitting happily in the 5GHz band for years without issues (fewer attempts at intrusion, wider selection of channels to avoid interference, less clutter, better bandwidth).
My 802.11a access point (an older DLink unit -- DWL-7100) has worked perfectly for years, and I have machines that connect to it and stay connected for *weeks* without problems. Unplugging that AP and connecting the same devices to the DAP-2590 has them dropping every couple to few hours when the radio on the DAP-2590 resets, even if I force it to 802.11a mode, which certainly should not tax it even if there is nearby noise.
--- Quote from: FurryNutz on November 18, 2011, 07:42:52 AM ---Any chance of taking this DAP unit to a different location, like home, friend for families place for a temp test to see if it works else where?
--- End quote ---
It *is* in my home network.
Unhappily no good chance to take it elsewhere and leave it long enough to get a good sample: nobody else I know has bothered to (pay extra in order to) buy devices that can speak either 802.11a or 802.11n at 5GHz (though a few of the not-too-expensive 802.11n devices can work at 5GHz, they still seem uncommon).
Amusingly I can run both the DAP-2590 and the DWL-7100 at the same time (firmware 1.13 on the DAP-2590 renders my 802.11a devices unable to connect to it unless the DAP-2590 is in '802.11a only' mode, but the DAP-2590 still resets even in this configuration), and while the DAP-2590 is collapsing under the stress of a single 802.11n client in the 5GHz band, the DWL-7100 happily purrs along without problems with its normal two clients, also in the 5GHz band (I turned off the 802.11b/g support on the DWL-7100 almost as soon as I opened its box).
I still have a little while before I have to decide to keep or return this DAP-2590. I don't intend to loan it out to see if somebody else has problems with it. Even if I would consider this, too many of my friends are running hardware that only supports the 2.4GHz band and are perfectly accustomed to wireless dropouts simply because of all the other stuff in that band, so they'd never notice it.
For a 'commercial grade' AP to collapse because of nearby noise in a different part of the spectrum seems wrong; so much so it definitely does not warrant a 'commercial grade' designation (I would hesitate to call it 'consumer grade' -- sounds more like 'beta test'). I also experimented with a 'consumer grade' 802.11n router (doesn't speak 802.11a but can speak 802.11n at 5GHz) that does not suffer this radio problem in the same place and with similar configuration, but it has other problems in my network because it is a router and I don't need another router.
I keep hoping the problem is something that can be addressed by configuration or firmware, but the way the DLink tech support people talk about the problem, it makes me think it is a design defect or firmware bug in the radio. Thankfully, I think it might be the case that radio firmware is included in the unit firmware, because the 1.13 firmware and the 1.20 firmware show distinct differences that might be due to radio firmware in some places (for example, the signal strength indication on the clients page on 1.20 shows 100% for everything, but on 1.13 it shows 80% to 90% most of the time). Unhappily I do not seem to have a firmware version that avoids the radio resetting.
I'll check out the tool you mentioned and let you know if it helps or tech support lets me know they have an idea or I figure something else out.
Thanks.
FurryNutz:
I like your sense of humor man, you got have some in dealing with this things. LOL.
You mentioned that you had older HW running A modes with out issue. One test I would do is try Single mode A or N if you can and see if it exhibits the same issues on 5Ghz. Try playing with channels.
I agree that the collapse of the connections should probably not happen however, again, this is probably not something FW can or would fix by using any update. I feel the wireless is probably encountering some sort of interference on some level and it's trying to maintain signals and connection and something is stopping that from being reliably maintained. I presume that most any WiFi devices will have problems dealing with a situation like this. This issue seems to be coming more prevalent the more people get WiFi's going and being such a populated and congested area, the channels are being more used up and the radios going, there is just to much interference to maintain a clean signal.
You probably proved that this isn't a FW issue as you've gone from the latest back to an older one and it's still producing the issue.
How long do you have before you return the unit?
One thing you could try, go get a different device, try a router, or access point something different. I might bet that device would exhibit the same problem. Just a suggestion.
Keep us posted on what you see on InSSIDer.
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