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Author Topic: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L  (Read 6308 times)

westwoodm

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computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« on: November 27, 2015, 02:49:52 PM »

Hello.
I have a networking problem that seems to have gradually made its way to the point of utter annoyance and seems to be due to our router. Our small business of 7 computers and growing is networked via wired Ethernet, our ISP is a cable based provider (Shaw), Modem: Motorolla 5B 5100. For several months now since the introduction of two pre made HP windows 10 desktop machines our network has started to act erratically. Computers are disappearing when viewing them under networking in Windows7 and 10.. They spontaneously reappear throughout the day. Our full network map is different from each computer. The strange thing is that the computers are there. I saved shortcuts to each shared folder and placed them on each computer and they are accessible consistently, but the computers pop in an d out of existence when viewing them under the network view and aren’t accessible that way. There is no interruption or slow down in access to the internet. WIFI is unaffected. This problem only affects local networking views.

Please see the attached picture of our network http://s44.photobucket.com/user/westwoodmemorials01/media/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/westwood%20network%20map%2011.12.2015_zpsw2yfvyt5.jpg.html. This big "?" you see in the picture comes and goes and varies when you view the network from the other computers.

Our machines are all windows7 home premium, a mix of 32 and 64 bit and now window10 home 64bit. 3 have Kaspersky virus protection (purchased) , the others have Avira free. The problem does not seem to be specific with any of the machines running a certain virus protection. We are not using windows Homegroup. Our advance sharing/network discovery is enabled on all the computers share the same settings throughout; see here http://s44.photobucket.com/user/westwoodmemorials01/media/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/advance%20network%20settings_zps9cdtyikr.jpg.html.
Months before I have noticed the the network taking a long time to show files on one computer or the other but just brushed that off. You can see a video here https://youtu.be/V9ZBkYo0WPc to see how slow it takes for an F5 refresh to show our network. So I don’t think this is entirely related to the two new windows 10 pcs. Our network and firewall setting shave been untouched for years now. Cycling the router off back to on though makes makes a big difference as once you do that all the computers are now visible for a couple days but then gradually begin to disappear. Incidentally, after these router restarts the windows 10 machines no longer see anyone under the network, BUT network shortcuts STILL work.  So whats going on with our router? Its barely a year old!

You can view all our hardware in the above mentioned pictures or Listed below:
Modem: Motorolla 5B 5100
Router: Dlink DIR 826L Hardware version A1, Firmware version 1.02 region: Canada
Switches: Netgear FS 116 ProSafe 16 port 10/100
Any help would be appreciated, never had this problem before.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 02:54:50 PM by westwoodm »
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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2015, 02:58:33 PM »


Router and Wired Configurations
Some things to try: - Log into the routers web page at 192.168.0.1. Use IE, Opera or FF to manage the router. Be sure to log into the Admin account on the router.
  • Turn off TrueGigaBit Routing under Setup/Internet/Manual for those routers that have this feature for testing.
  • Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking. This ensures each devices gets its own IP address when turned on and connected, eliminates IP address conflicts and helps in troubleshooting and maintain consistency for applications that need to connect as well as mapped drives.
  • Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address.
  • If IPv6 is an option on the router, select Local Connection Only under Setup/IPv6.
  • Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall. Enable or Disable SPI to test.
  • Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming under Advanced/Networking. Disable uPnP for testing Port Forwarding rules. Enable IPv6 Multi-cast Streaming for routers that have a Media Server option. Disable IPv6 Multi-cast Streaming if IPv6 or Media Server is not being used.
  • Turn off WISH, and WPS under Advanced.

Test with the PCs directly connected to the router. The Switches you have are 100Mb max speed connection rates, the router supports up to 1000Mb and I presume that you newer PCs support 1000Mb on there network adapter cards as well.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 03:01:50 PM by FurryNutz »
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westwoodm

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 01:22:27 PM »

Hey Thank you very much for the response. I read through your response and am trying to implement the changes but have to admit I'm a bit lost with where to find some settings.

"Turn off TrueGigaBit Routing under Setup/Internet/Manual for those routers that have this feature for testing."
I turned off this option and several minutes later, lost my connection to the router, network and internet. I had to physically restart the router to regain access to the network and internet. The computers that are visible on the network are now different from each computer station which is kind of going back to what problems we're having before. Should I re-enable this option?

"Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking."
should I follow the DHCP link you provided using the step for "Reserved IP addresses" I am basically  adding a DHCP reservation address for each computer on our network? If I follow through and enable this option will I have problems adding another computer to the ethernet network in the future? Do I also have to do this to devices that connect WIRELESS to our network, like apple and android phone?
 
"Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address."
where is this option found? On the router or in each computer?

In another website, I was told to go to my network connections, right click on the local area connection properties and turn off  TCP/IPv6 on all our computers. Should I go and enable this again on all the machines before proceeding further below?

"If IPv6 is an option on the router, select Local Connection Only under Setup/IPv6."
on the DIR 826L, there are 3 options under Setup/IPv6:
1.IPv6 Internet Connection Setup Wizard
2.Manual IPv6 Local Connectivity Setup
3.Manual IPv6 Internet Connection Setup
I should choose #2? The only thing I can tick of there is to "Enable ULA" I should do so? If enabled the only other options are
Use default ULA prefix :on
ULA Prefix:         /64    (currently filled in with a 15 digit alpha numeric string)

Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall."
I have no such option under Advanced/Firewall settings. The only thing I can do is enable SPI. Should I do so and leave it on all the time?

"Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming..." you mean under Advance/Advanced Network? I Should enable IPv6 (its currently off)

"Turn off WISH, and WPS under Advanced." I cannot find this simply under Advanced. Is this under Advanced/Wireless? or under Setup./Wirless?

If you could please clarify that would be great. I'm a real novice at this stuff.
I really dont under stand why this is happening. Should I update the routers firmware? Thanks.


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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 01:56:46 PM »

Hey Thank you very much for the response. I read through your response and am trying to implement the changes but have to admit I'm a bit lost with where to find some settings.

"Turn off TrueGigaBit Routing under Setup/Internet/Manual for those routers that have this feature for testing."
I turned off this option and several minutes later, lost my connection to the router, network and internet. I had to physically restart the router to regain access to the network and internet. The computers that are visible on the network are now different from each computer station which is kind of going back to what problems we're having before. Should I re-enable this option?
When this feature is disabled or enabled, the full reboot of the router and PCs should be performed and is expected behavior for this feature.

"Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking."
should I follow the DHCP link you provided using the step for "Reserved IP addresses" I am basically  adding a DHCP reservation address for each computer on our network? Yes If I follow through and enable this option will I have problems adding another computer to the ethernet network in the future? No Do I also have to do this to devices that connect WIRELESS to our network, like apple and android phone? If they are commonly connected to the router then yes. If they are only have temporary connections or connected once, then you don't have to.
 
"Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address."
where is this option found? On the router or in each computer? Each computer. Control Panel => Network and Internet => Network Connections
 
Right click the "Local Area Connection" you want and select "Properties" and then click the "Configure" button. Select the IPv4 Protocol listing.

In another website, I was told to go to my network connections, right click on the local area connection properties and turn off  TCP/IPv6 on all our computers. Should I go and enable this again on all the machines before proceeding further below? If you don't have a need or a requirement on your network or you ISP services doesn't support IPv6 on there service, keep IPv6 disabled or let to Local Only Connection.

"If IPv6 is an option on the router, select Local Connection Only under Setup/IPv6."
on the DIR 826L, there are 3 options under Setup/IPv6:
1.IPv6 Internet Connection Setup Wizard
2.Manual IPv6 Local Connectivity Setup
3.Manual IPv6 Internet Connection Setup
I should choose #2? The only thing I can tick of there is to "Enable ULA" I should do so? If enabled the only other options are
Use default ULA prefix :on
ULA Prefix:         /64    (currently filled in with a 15 digit alpha numeric string)

Set Firewall settings to Endpoint Independent for TCP and UDP under Advanced/Firewall."
I have no such option under Advanced/Firewall settings. The only thing I can do is enable SPI. Should I do so and leave it on all the time? Yes.

"Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming..." you mean under Advance/Advanced Network? I Should enable IPv6 (its currently off). Keep disabled only if you don't use IPv6.

"Turn off WISH, and WPS under Advanced." I cannot find this simply under Advanced. Is this under Advanced/Wireless? or under Setup./Wirless? WISH may not be a feature on this model router, so you can skip it. WPS will be under Advanced/Advanced Wireless I believe.

If you could please clarify that would be great. I'm a real novice at this stuff.
I really dont under stand why this is happening. Should I update the routers firmware? Lets see if the current FW can be configured to work for you first.
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Hard Harry

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2015, 12:51:16 AM »

First, can you still ping the computers by IP when they "disappear"? Depending on your DHCP lease length, it may be having a hard time resolving the domain names to their IP.

Second, are the two Windows 10 machines have up to date NIC drivers?

Third, have you tried disabling file sharing and see if that makes network discovery faster? Also, try 40-56bit encryption, in case of compatibility issues. These would just be temporary measures to isolate the issue.

Last, it is odd to see a consumer router mixed in with 2 16port smart switches. Why do you have two if you only have 7 PC's? Why not just use one with a VLAN?
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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 07:32:28 AM »

Any status on this?  ???
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westwoodm

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2015, 03:16:46 PM »

Sorry for the late reply. Our business got busy for a bit and I didn't want to muck with the network at the same time.

"Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking."
If they are commonly connected to the router then yes. If they are only have temporary connections or connected once, then you don't have to.

This ended up being very difficult to do. some of the computers would not show up on the list. I had to keep re-logging back into the router at different times. One of the windows10 machines, "Crystal" was renamed as "Workgroup"under the Dynamic DHCP clients. you can see that evident  here: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/dlink%20network%20DHCP2email_zpsmgflulxg.jpg
I dont know why "Cystal" is listed as "Workgroup" and this was the only pc that had this problem.


"Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address."
where is this option found? On the router or in each computer? Each computer. Control Panel => Network and Internet => Network Connections
All machines had this option set since 1st being used and I double checked them. It was still set to auto obtain.
 
"If IPv6 is an option on the router, select Local Connection Only under Setup/IPv6."
on the DIR 826L, there are 3 options under Setup/IPv6:
I have no such option under Advanced/Firewall settings. The only thing I can do is enable SPI. Should I do so and leave it on all the time? Yes.
"Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming..." you mean under Advance/Advanced Network? I Should enable IPv6 (its currently off). Keep disabled only if you don't use IPv6.

my IPv6 router settings are here:
1. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/IPv6_1%20email_zpsqxvo8fcj.jpg
2. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/IPv6_2%20UPnP%20email_zpszqnklbkp.jpg
3. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/IPv6_3%20UPnP%20email_zpspbxppjxj.jpg

are these correct?


I really dont under stand why this is happening. Should I update the routers firmware? Lets see if the current FW can be configured to work for you first.
[/quote]

after doing all the changes and rebooting the router. mostly all the computers showed up in every one else's network tab. Only the windows10 machines were absent. the network settings are still unstable though. I did that Friday. Today 1st thing after coming into work, I cycled the router on and off. All the computers saw everybody uniformly under network tab. The only hold out was the "Crystal" windows10 machine. BUT as the day moved on the network degenerated. computers started disappearing again. So its basically like a full reboot of the router makes everyone see everyone else and even the network runs faster, ie. accessing someone elses shared folder shows up more quickly. but as the day goes on computers disappear. whats even more problematic, rebooting a machine will make it all the computers disappear and only see part of the network again.
is my router going bad?
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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 08:42:09 AM »

Sorry for the late reply. Our business got busy for a bit and I didn't want to muck with the network at the same time.

"Setup DHCP reserved IP addresses for all devices ON the router. Setup/Networking."
If they are commonly connected to the router then yes. If they are only have temporary connections or connected once, then you don't have to.

This ended up being very difficult to do. some of the computers would not show up on the list. I had to keep re-logging back into the router at different times. One of the windows10 machines, "Crystal" was renamed as "Workgroup"under the Dynamic DHCP clients. you can see that evident  here: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/dlink%20network%20DHCP2email_zpsmgflulxg.jpg
I dont know why "Cystal" is listed as "Workgroup" and this was the only pc that had this problem.

Do all PCs have there workgroup name set? This should be set for each PC as this will help the router detect and identify the name in the Dyanmic Clients section on the router. If there is not host name set, then the router will only display unknown or nothing. If the Windows 10 PC displays workgroup then something in Windows 10 needs to be changed.

"Ensure devices are set to auto obtain an IP address."
where is this option found? On the router or in each computer? Each computer. Control Panel => Network and Internet => Network Connections
All machines had this option set since 1st being used and I double checked them. It was still set to auto obtain.
 OK.

"If IPv6 is an option on the router, select Local Connection Only under Setup/IPv6."
on the DIR 826L, there are 3 options under Setup/IPv6:
I have no such option under Advanced/Firewall settings. The only thing I can do is enable SPI. Should I do so and leave it on all the time? Yes.
"Enable uPnP and Multi-cast Streaming..." you mean under Advance/Advanced Network? I Should enable IPv6 (its currently off). Keep disabled only if you don't use IPv6.

my IPv6 router settings are here:
1. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/IPv6_1%20email_zpsqxvo8fcj.jpg
2. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/IPv6_2%20UPnP%20email_zpszqnklbkp.jpg
3. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f37/westwoodmemorials01/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/IPv6_3%20UPnP%20email_zpspbxppjxj.jpg

are these correct?
Yes

I really dont under stand why this is happening. Should I update the routers firmware? Lets see if the current FW can be configured to work for you first. You might give a FW update a try and see how it goes.


after doing all the changes and rebooting the router. mostly all the computers showed up in every one else's network tab. Only the windows10 machines were absent. the network settings are still unstable though. I did that Friday. Today 1st thing after coming into work, I cycled the router on and off. All the computers saw everybody uniformly under network tab. The only hold out was the "Crystal" windows10 machine. BUT as the day moved on the network degenerated. computers started disappearing again. So its basically like a full reboot of the router makes everyone see everyone else and even the network runs faster, ie. accessing someone elses shared folder shows up more quickly. but as the day goes on computers disappear. whats even more problematic, rebooting a machine will make it all the computers disappear and only see part of the network again.
is my router going bad?

Can you turn OFF the windows 10 PC and see if you notice any different behavior? Im wondering of this PC maybe causing problems.
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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2016, 10:40:30 AM »

Any status on this?  ???
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westwoodm

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2016, 02:10:11 PM »

Hi.
After many weeks None of the suggested changes have affected the network view of the 7 diff computers. Rebooting the router USED to make every machine show up nicely but i've noticed now that even on router reboot, the machines do not want to show up anymore. So it seems like the router is degrading?? I've also notice that surfing the internet wireless on an android phone sometimes is very laggy, taking very long pauses to load a webpage. I'm not sure if this is the same on an iphone or laptop using the wireless network. Ethernet surfing on the computers seems to be consistent throughout.
My 'network location' varies from one computer to the next. It changes from "network3" to "network4" could this possibly be causing problems? Though one network location does not consistently show up better than another. For instance the computer named "Central-PC" which is on network location "network3," you can consistently see ALL the other computers under network view but "Crystal-PC" which is also on network location "network3" cannot see all other machines. 
 


Do all PCs have there workgroup name set? This should be set for each PC as this will help the router detect and identify the name in the Dyanmic Clients section on the router.
I've left all PCs with the generic workgroup name "WORKGROUP". Should I change this from the generic "WORKGROUP" to something else like "WESTWOOD" or something?

If there is not host name set, then the router will only display unknown or nothing. If the Windows 10 PC displays workgroup then something in Windows 10 needs to be changed.
So is this why the one computer "Curtis-PC" can never display its connection to the router under the 'show full network map" option and rather shows a "?" see here:
http://s44.photobucket.com/user/westwoodmemorials01/media/Troubleshooting/computer%20issues/westwood%20network%20map%2011.12.2015_zpsw2yfvyt5.jpg.html

The windows10 pcs have the workgroup name set to "WORKGROUP" as with all the other PCs.


You might give a FW update a try and see how it goes.
I will start reading up on how to do the FW upgrade. It HAS to be done with a computer directly connected via ethernet to the router? I should disconnect all other ethernet cables?

Can you turn OFF the windows 10 PC and see if you notice any different behavior? Im wondering of this PC maybe causing problems.

Turning off the window10 PCs doesn't not have any positive affect on being able to view other PCs on the network.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 02:46:52 PM by westwoodm »
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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 02:19:46 PM »

WORKGROUP should work however it's recommended to change the group name to something less generic and more identifiable.

Always update FW using a WIRED LAN cable connection. You can leave the PCs connected however I like to disconnect all from the router to ensure a good clean installation of FW> Please follow the FW Update process link.

I guess I'll connect up my 826L this evening and see what I find on mine.
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westwoodm

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 02:59:12 PM »

WORKGROUP should work however it's recommended to change the group name to something less generic and more identifiable.

Always update FW using a WIRED LAN cable connection. You can leave the PCs connected however I like to disconnect all from the router to ensure a good clean installation of FW> Please follow the FW Update process link.

I guess I'll connect up my 826L this evening and see what I find on mine.
Thanks for keeping on top of this thread. YOu've been very helpful. Please see the top of reply #9 as I've added some additional information while you replied already regarding network location names.
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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2016, 08:59:06 AM »

I have installed my 826L last nite and is online. I haven't had a chance to do more then that.

If your seeing network location messages or information that is changing, usually means there is something happening on the network or something is changing as I presume you maybe seeing networking popups when you first log in to the desktop? Are you seeing please select a network location, public, work or private?

I'll be looking at my networking this evening and see what I find.
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FurryNutz

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2016, 04:28:39 PM »

Heres what I find on my system:


These 3 systems are Windows 7 x64 and there are 2 switches connected. ALL PCs have a set custom work group name.
Router is using v1.05
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westwoodm

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Re: computers randomly disappear over wired network Dir 826L
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 12:40:17 PM »

Hi there
never had a pop up for our networking location since the computer were 1st hooked up years ago. All our network location are set to "Work."
I've also changed all the computers workgroup names from "WORKGROUP" to "WESTWOOD"; no change in network behavior.

I did a router upgrade, going from 1.02 tp the most recent 1.06.  Left all the settings at default did not re upload the old config file but manually retyped all settings for ssid, wifi etc. All other settings were left default.
At 1st, this was success, I could see everyone showing up in network places EXCEPT both windows 10 machines. That was in the morning of monday. By the end of the day I noticed the computers were disappearing. The next day and onward we're back to square one. Almost every computer is seeing no one (including itself) when looking under network locations. Should I apply the settings you had specified  earlier again? they did not held with the network views previously.

Is it possible to change "Network location?" currently all the machines are either set to "Network 4" or "Network 3". There is no positive correlation between a computer being on Network 3 or Network 4 but who knows, it might help?
Should I use windows7 HOMEGROUP? I dont really see much benefit from using them. I dont know anyone who does either.

Is this router faulty?


I have installed my 826L last nite and is online. I haven't had a chance to do more then that.

If your seeing network location messages or information that is changing, usually means there is something happening on the network or something is changing as I presume you maybe seeing networking popups when you first log in to the desktop? Are you seeing please select a network location, public, work or private?

I'll be looking at my networking this evening and see what I find.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 12:58:52 PM by westwoodm »
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