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Author Topic: Achiveing OPEN NAT in game with two or more game console online at same time  (Read 1280 times)

FurryNutz

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History:
Average home sees 1 gaming console connected to the network. Given a general default single NAT condition configuration on the home network, being that the ISP modem doesn't have NAT and using a external home class router (DIR series), OPEN NAT is seen generally on the 1 game console and with in the game that is being played when and if the entire system is configured correctly. Some online multi-player games have networking features to show networking status and NAT condition. Call of Duty branded games are one example. Bungle games like Halo 4 and 5 also show networking status. MS has a networking status feature which checks networking configuration and speeds along with NAT status on there Xbox home menu system.

For multi-player online games OPEN NAT condition is critical for best gaming performances with others online along with QoS. This only effects multi-player online gaming with other players around the world using gaming services like Microsoft Xbox Live and Sony Playstation gaming services.

With the consideration of some homes having multiple people, there are some cases where there maybe more than 1 game console connected with in the house hold and playing same game title. This is seen with house holds having more than 1 or 2 cell phones and some streaming devices like TVs, streamers and game consoles that include streaming support. With a house hold having two or more game systems, we find that the users of these systems attempt to connect and configure them to be online at the same time and be able to play games online. Finding various posts and information about this I see various information about in game NAT status and users trying to achieve OPEN NAT in game for best gaming experiences. OPEN NAT on any game console is desired, recommended and preferred for all online gaming experiences. Over the years I have done my own testing and configurations with 1 game console and 2 game consoles and maxing out 3 connected game consoles with success.

Desire:
This post is in hopes that we can help D-Link and there router FW engineering group to ensure that D-Link router products can meet the needs of single gaming users as well as multiple gaming users while connected and online at the same time to 1 single NAT router.

Configuration and Testing
What works with two MS Xbox1 game consoles online at the same time and seeing OPEN NAT in game: Call of Duty - Black Ops 3
ISP: 100/3 Cable one
ISP Modem: Motorola SB 6121
Main Host Router: DIR-655 Rev B v2.11
Game consoles use: 2 MS Xboxs1 game consoles with the required Xbox Live user account subscription.
Game console "Instant ON" feature disabled on both. (Known issue with this feature when enabled that causes network and NAT issues.)
Connection: All LAN CAT6 connected between game consoles and router. Two Gb network switches in between #1 Xbox1 and the main host router. #2 Xbox1 is LAN cable directly to the back of the main host router.
Game used: Call of Duty - Black Ops 3

Router Configuration:
Public IP address ##.##.###.### seen on WAN port of main host router.
Xbox1 #1 is reserved IP address at 192.168.0.199. Xbox1 #2 is reserved IP address 192.168.0.198.
QoS/Traffic Shaping is enabled and configured to the following:
Local IP range - 192.168.0.198 to 192.168.0.199
Protocol - Both
Local and Remote Port Range - 0 to 65535
Remote IP range - 0.0.0.1 to 255.255.255.254
Priority - 50
uPnP is enabled.
DNS Relay and SPI disabled
Port Forwarding, Application or Virtual Server not used or configured.

Powering ON the xbox game consoles to check networking to make sure that the reserved IP addresses are correct on each game console.
Disable Instant ON feature on each Xbox1.
Turn OFF both game consoles.
Power OFF the ISP modem and main host router.
Power ON the ISP modem and let it sync(1-2min).
Power ON the main host router and let it come to ready and sync with the ISP modem and services. This also clears and sets up uPnP and routing tables.
Turn ON Xbox1 #1 and let it come to the game console dashboard menu.
Navigate to the Networking Settings menu and check NAT status. Should be OPEN.
Start the multi-player game, i.e. Call of Duty - Black Ops 3, and wait for the game to load.
Navigate into the Multi-Player game section. This will take the user to a game lobby.
Review the NAT status at the bottom of the screen. Should be OPEN.

Turn ON Xbox1 #2 and let it come to the game console dashboard menu.
Navigate to the Networking Settings menu and check NAT status. Should be OPEN.
Start the multi-player game, i.e. Call of Duty - Black Ops 3, and wait for the game to load.
Navigate into the Multi-Player game section. This will take the user to a game lobby.
Review the NAT status at the bottom of the screen. Should be OPEN.
NOTE: We seen various NAT status from Moderate to Strict and sometimes, powering OFF the #2 game console that didn't achieve OPEN NAT and turning it back on seems to eventually achieve OPEN NAT in the  Call of Duty - Black Ops 3 game if it was not achieved on first attempt.

During August of this year(2016), my household had 3 Xbox1 game consoles for two weeks. When using the DIR-655, and adding the 3rd game console to the router configuration. OPEN NAT was seen on the 3rd however sometimes Moderate was seen as well. I presume we may have been pushing the limits of the DIR-655 with 3 XBox1 all connected at the same time, however the 655 seem to do ok with powering OFF and ON the game console to eventually achieve OPEN NAT seen in Call of Duty -Black Ops 3.

In game multi-player experience and performance:
Gaming is good to excellent overall and while gaming performance is user based and skills with OPEN NAT being achieved on both game consoles, general overall gaming match making games are won with good team effort and using this networking configuration. We do see some gaming performance issues which can be caused by other player/users networking and ISP configurations and some LAN side bandwidth devices such as video streamers or downloaders on the same networking system. Then configuration seen above is a configuration to make sure that the gaming performance and experiences are achieved with highest level of operation for gaming as well and other devices that maybe in used on the same networking system. I my case above, we game in the late evening to late night time frames and no other users or devices are online using any or little bandwidth in my house hold. Yes we do take into account the various and many ISP and network configurations, there will be problems and maybe OPEN NAT can't be achieved with 2 or more game consoles are online at the same time.

What doesn't seem to work or partially work or results bad game NAT status: New Generation DIR series routers
ISP: 100/3 Cable one
ISP Modem: Motorola SB 6121
Main Host Router: DIR-880L Rev A1 v1.08WW or DIR-890L Rev A1 v1.09 and 1.10
Game consoles use: 2 MS Xbox 1 with the required Xbox Live user account subscription.
Game console "Instant ON" feature disabled on both. (Known issue with this feature when enabled that causes network and NAT issues.)
Game used: Call of Duty - Black Ops 3
Connection: All LAN CAT6 connected between game consoles and router. Two Gb network switches in between #1 Xbox1 and the main host router. #2 Xbox1 is LAN cable directly to the back of the main host router.
Public IP address ##.##.###.### seen on WAN port of main host router.
Xbox1 #1 is reserved IP address at 192.168.0.199. Xbox1 #2 is reserved IP address 192.168.0.198.
QoS Configured with the game console device tiles placed in the Highest and or High section(mixed). There is only one Highest section and two High sections available in the new UI. Both game console tiles were placed in the High section(same section) as well for testing.
uPnP is enabled.
DNS Relay and SPI disabled
Port Forwarding, or Virtual Server not used or configured.

Powering ON the Xbox game consoles to check networking to make sure that the reserved IP addresses are correct on each game console.
Disable Instant ON feature on each Xbox1.
Turn OFF both game consoles.
Power OFF the ISP modem and main host router.
Power ON the ISP modem and let it sync(1-2min).
Power ON the main host router and let it come to ready and sync with the ISP modem and services. This also clears and sets up uPnP and routing tables.
Turn ON Xbox1 #1 and let it come to the game console dashboard menu.
Navigate to the Networking Settings menu and check NAT status. Should be OPEN.
Start the multi-player game, i.e. Call of Duty - Black Ops 3, and wait for the game to load.
Navigate into the Multi-Player game section. This will take the user to a game lobby.
Review the NAT status at the bottom of the screen. Should be OPEN.

Turn ON Xbox1 #2 and let it come to the game console dashboard menu.
Navigate to the Networking Settings menu and check NAT status. Should be OPEN. May show Moderate.
Start the multi-player game, i.e. Call of Duty - Black Ops 3, and wait for the game to load.
Navigate into the Multi-Player game section. This will take the user to a game lobby.
Review the NAT status at the bottom of the screen. Should be OPEN however shows MODERATE or STRICT.

NOTE: We've seen that NAT status seen in game may depend upon which game console is actually turned ON first. So If Xbo1 #2 was turned on first and Xbox1 #1 was turned on last, OPEN NAT status maybe seen on the game console that was turned ON and connected first.

In game multi-player experience and performance:
With one game console achieving OPEN NAT and the 2nd game console achieving Moderate, same gaming performances maybe slow movements or laggy or when both users are in a game lobby waiting to connect with other friendly players and join in the lobby for team gaming experiences can be problematic as sometimes we can't hear voices from other players in the lobby, can't connect to join an invitation to a lobby or in game performance is reduced causing game lag and or missed targets and slow video motion, movement or pixelation.

Testing this between 3 different routers (DIR-655, 880L and 890L) with 2 Xbox1 game consoles and setting up the configuration of each router. From what I see and experience, I believe there is a problem in the way QoS and or uPnP is handling Ports and connecting Port numbers that are needed by the MS Xblox live services and with the what the actual game requires and usage for when two or more game consoles are connected for online gaming and attaining OPEN NAT thru out the game networking system. From experience, we know that 3074 is the main Xbox live services subscription and gaming port. We believe and I have seen in the routing tables that other virtual ports are being used, i.e. 3075 and subsequent port numbers.
MS Xbox Live and Game port usage information: This assumes only one game console being online.
https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/networking/network-ports-used-xbox-live
http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_support/networking-hardware/10__xbox_live_port_list/f/5515.aspx

D-Link forum router configuration gathered from personal experience:
http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=42011.0
I need to update the linked picture images as they are not working correctly due to using of a bad image file server. I'll update the link soon for picture example review.

With the experiences seen on newer generation routers, We presume that uPnP is playing a roll in acquiring and connecting to other virtual ports when needed when port 3074 is captured and used by the first connected game console, thus when the 2nd game console is connected, uPnP should be setting up a virtual 2ndary port for use by the 2nd game console, however maybe either uPnP or QoS handling behaviors on the newer generation routers (DIR_8XXL) seems to be failing with the above configuration compared to the older DIR-655 series router tested above which seems to work.

Older historical testing was a few years ago (2012-13 est) using a DIR-645 v1.04 and 2 MS Xbox 360s and I think we were gaming with Call of Duty Modern Warefare 3 and Black Ops 1 or 2 at the time. I'll have to dig into more time frame details later. I do remember OPEN NAT was seen on both MS Xbox 360 game consoles while connected and gaming at the same time while using the DIR-645. Other routers tested was the DIR-868L however I can't fully remember if I had 2 Xbox game consoles during that time frame used on the 868L.

I'm hoping that with this and some additional user input information from other users with two or more game consoles, we can set a standard configuration for multiple game consoles being online at the same time when using D-Link model routers and help D-Link router products to work well with this type of game configuration. I believe as time goes on, more house holds will see more game console systems being used in multi-person house holds and using a D-link router product will prove to be a good customer product for gaming and general router needs.

Please let me know if any additional information, configuration and testing is needed.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 02:20:32 PM by FurryNutz »
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Cable:100mb/3Mb>Motorola SB6183>DIR-880L>HP 24pt Gb Switch. 3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,865L,836L,826L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L and a Boxee.
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BiggShooter

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This is a very good summery of the current issues relating to gaming gaming (Xbox One gaming consoles) and the latest generation of D'Link routers.  I have the DIR-890L and CANNOT achieve OPEN NAT on both my Xbox One gaming consoles.  It seems whichever Xbox One console gets turned on first, that is the Xbox One gaming console that "wins" the OPEN NAT award. 

I'm hoping this issue becomes a "thing of the past" and we can find a fix to end this issue, once and for all! 
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FurryNutz

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Please copy and paste the configuration text and edit to reflect your network HW and configuration please.  ;)

The more information we gather, the better D-Link can review and understand the situation.

This is a very good summery of the current issues relating to gaming gaming (Xbox One gaming consoles) and the latest generation of D'Link routers.  I have the DIR-890L and CANNOT achieve OPEN NAT on both my Xbox One gaming consoles.  It seems whichever Xbox One console gets turned on first, that is the Xbox One gaming console that "wins" the OPEN NAT award. 

I'm hoping this issue becomes a "thing of the past" and we can find a fix to end this issue, once and for all!
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Cable:100mb/3Mb>Motorola SB6183>DIR-880L>HP 24pt Gb Switch. 3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,865L,836L,826L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L and a Boxee.
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BiggShooter

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This is a very good summery of the current issues relating to gaming gaming (Xbox One gaming consoles) and the latest generation of D'Link routers.  I have the DIR-890L and CANNOT achieve OPEN NAT on both my Xbox One gaming consoles.  It seems whichever Xbox One console gets turned on first, that is the Xbox One gaming console that "wins" the OPEN NAT award. 

I'm hoping this issue becomes a "thing of the past" and we can find a fix to end this issue, once and for all!

Two Xbox One gaming consoles connected via CAT6 - one Xbox One gaming console is connected directly to 890L LAN port, and second Xbox One is connected to a HP Switch (which is connected directly to 890L LAN port.  890L is connected to Motorola SB 6180.  ISP Speed is 100/5 (Cable)
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FurryNutz

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Since you told me that "Instant ON" was enabled on both of your game consoles, can you retest your configuration again with it disabled?
Game console "Instant ON" feature should be disabled on both. (Known issue with this feature when enabled that causes network and NAT issues.)

This is a very good summery of the current issues relating to gaming gaming (Xbox One gaming consoles) and the latest generation of D'Link routers.  I have the DIR-890L and CANNOT achieve OPEN NAT on both my Xbox One gaming consoles.  It seems whichever Xbox One console gets turned on first, that is the Xbox One gaming console that "wins" the OPEN NAT award. 

I'm hoping this issue becomes a "thing of the past" and we can find a fix to end this issue, once and for all!

Two Xbox One gaming consoles connected via CAT6 - one Xbox One gaming console is connected directly to 890L LAN port, and second Xbox One is connected to a HP Switch (which is connected directly to 890L LAN port.  890L is connected to Motorola SB 6180.  ISP Speed is 100/5 (Cable)
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Cable:100mb/3Mb>Motorola SB6183>DIR-880L>HP 24pt Gb Switch. 3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,865L,836L,826L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L and a Boxee.
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FurryNutz

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This issue maybe MS and 1st generation XB1 related as one user mentioned he found information pointing towards uPnP issues seen on 1st generation XB1s.
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/upnp-multiple-xbox-one-gaming-consoles-nat.35324/page-6#post-300859

Over all, there maybe issues with uPnP seen on MS XB1 consoles and various Mfr routers. At most, I've been able to achieve OPEN NAT on xbox dash board and in game (CoD BO3) with 2 and 3 XB1s online at the same time using D-Links DIR-655 and DGL-4500. Newer generation routers like the DIR-890L and 880L, I seem to have more problems achieving OPEN NAT in GAME and feel this maybe more of a in game detection issue rather than a router or uPnP issue. Newer generation DIR series routers have more simplified QoS configurations where older DIR series have more granular or advanced user configurations allowing users to configure more advanced scenarios in there configurations which may also play a role.

I believe there maybe a few different areas that are at play here, i.e. NAT configuration, router configuration, router and game console uPnP code and handling when there are two or more game consoles online at the same time. One game console isn't effected unless ISP service and modem NAT are at play while using a external router. Single game console and single ISP NAT configurations most always results in OPEN NAT on xbox dashboard and in game (CoD BO3).
ISP modem (stand alone, no built in router)>External main host router(DIR series)<>xbox game console(s) connected to main host router.

I've come to the conclusion that NAT status needs to be reviewed at the xbox networking dashboard first and foremost and should be considered high priority status over any in game NAT status. NAT status impacts connections in game and how the gamers are connected and operate with games that are multi gamer match made and how gamers get into gaming lobbies and interact with other gamers around the world. It can also effect gamer in game performances as well. I've seen bad lobby's were team mates have problems joining the lobby and or not being able to talk to others while in the lobby or in game when NAT is Moderate or Strict seen on the xbox network dashboard and in game.




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Cable:100mb/3Mb>Motorola SB6183>DIR-880L>HP 24pt Gb Switch. 3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,865L,836L,826L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L and a Boxee.
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ndcnick2000

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I have been fighting this issues for the past several years, I have 5 kids all boys and they all have their own xbox, I also play so we have a total of 6 xbox ones on my network

A little history, I am an audio video tech, I deal with networking all the time, I have even done work for a service provider, so I was having a conversation with a tech at the headquarters and he told me that the modem blocks the NAT and there is nothing that we can do to change it

I have purchased a ton of network equipment to fix the issue with no luck.... UNTIL NOW!!!!

I had ATT uverse 75mbs down and no matter what I could not get open NAT on more than one xbox I even purchased the new netgear s8000 gaming router and no luck

in a last ditch attempt to keep my sanity and after hours yelling on the phone with ATT and refusing to purchase a block of IP address I gave up and canceled my service.. I called Suddenlink and purchased the 400mbs service and I bought a netgear modem off of amazon BAM open NAT on 6 xbox ones at the same time

the trick is that the netgear modem is just a point of access to the internet with no firewalls or filters, the D-Link has the power to do the rest..

my setup

suddenlink 400mb service
D-Link DIR-890l connected directly to the Netgear CM700
I have a D-link 16 port gigabit switch connected to the D-Link router and all of the xbox ones wired to it

it works and I have had it for about a month



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FurryNutz

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  • What Hardware version is your router? Look at sticker under the router case.
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Wow, a house hold with  6 xbox game consoles. Nice. Ya I would bet you had a hell of a time. I know I have over the years with two and three.

I'm old school audio phile and tech and now professional test engineer.  ;)

So one thing that sticks out with you situation, you said your previous ISP Modem was a ATT Uverse. This is important, these modems have a built in router. So connecting any other external router to this modem will cause NAT issues. We call this "double NAT" condition. I some cases some ISP modems can be bridged thus disabling the router portion of the modem however most ATT Uverse modems can't be. So I presume that when you got your new NG CM700 modem, you do know that this modem modem doesn't have a router built in, which is preferred. So when you got it all connected up, you are now in a single NAT condition which is preferred for any game console. Any why now you gat OPEN NAT on all game consoles. 

So there are two NAT statuses that you need to be aware of on the xbox, Dashboard and In-game. Dashboard being the most important. Is Open NAT being seen on all 6 consoles on there Dashboards? In-game NAT is the NAT status that the game detects as well. We've found this status to be a bit more problematic and not as accurate as the Dashboard NAT status. I've seen problems getting In-game OPEN NAT here and there. Some of this is caused by the network adapter and configuration on the game console. The one time I had 3 XB1s under one roof was last year, and had to use a older DIR series model router to get OPEN NAT across 3 consoles for In-game NAT status using this configuration for BO3:
Gaming and QoS for XBL
This is one NAT situtation with same game being played across all game consoles.

Question, how do you have your 890L setup and configured with all 6 XB1s? Any QoS configurations done here or no?
What games are being played. Any same name games being played at the same time like BO3?
Also FYI, about our NG CM700, This is a Intel based modem. Puma 6 to be exact. There has been some issues reported with this chip set over on the dslReports site:
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31079834-ALL-SB6190-is-a-terrible-modem-Intel-Puma-6-MaxLinear-mistake
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31122204-SB6190-Puma6-TCP-UDP-Network-Latency-Issue-Discussion
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31340594-ALL-SB6190-and-CM700-latency-fix-firmware-ready-to-test

The issue is being addressed by Arris and Intel and from what I can tell, NG however they are less vocal about it.

Definitely like your feed back and hope we can discuss this more with you. Any and all information regarding more than one game console is helpful.
Glad it's working for you though.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 11:43:27 AM by FurryNutz »
Logged
Cable:100mb/3Mb>Motorola SB6183>DIR-880L>HP 24pt Gb Switch. 3xDGL-4500s,DIR-857,835,827,815,890L,880L,868L,865L,836L,826L,810L,685,657,3x655s,645,628,601,DNR-202L,DNS-345,DCS-933L and a Boxee.
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